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REAL Media Create Charts: 24 - 30 July
- Thread starter A Link to the Past
- Start date
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
New numbers?
A Link to the Past
Banned
nubbe said:
Or small shipments.
Man, I hate ioi. Either him or his lackeys decided to join Wikipedia just to add vgcharts.org to the list of best selling games as a reference.
cvxfreak said:
Agreed. This is pretty ridiculous.
I like ioi and I appreciate how hard he works on his site and that his estimates are probably pretty good, but they're completely inappropriate there. His estimates are just guesses where he applies fixed percentages across the board because he doesn't agree with the calculations of people who have access to a lot more factual data than he does.
Someone needs to take it off there.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
LanceStern
Banned
Actually Wikipedia has been quoting ioi's numbers for a while. When you look up Gamecube million sellers, it gave a much longer list than I expected with Super Mario Strikers, DonkeyKonga, Metroid Prime 2, etc at very high numbers.
But it was Wikipedia so I was happy. But I also noticed they referenced it from everything or nothing which explained the numbers when I saw them.
I don't know if his EU numbers are guesses/estimates/actual data though.
But it was Wikipedia so I was happy. But I also noticed they referenced it from everything or nothing which explained the numbers when I saw them.
I don't know if his EU numbers are guesses/estimates/actual data though.
A Link to the Past
Banned
cvxfreak said:
And it works when I get rid of that BS
go nintendo is saying there's a pic at the end of some ds adverts showing the touch generations range has sold 12 million worldwide, but i think it's more likely in japan, since nintendogs alone is around 7 million worldwide.
http://gonintendo.com/?p=4387
is there anyone who could translate the sentence? (thanks).
i'd guess worldwide touch generations is around 20 million, maybe more.
http://gonintendo.com/?p=4387
is there anyone who could translate the sentence? (thanks).
i'd guess worldwide touch generations is around 20 million, maybe more.
I'm not particularly happy with some of the accusations and so forth in this thread, whoever has created a wikipedia article has done so off their own back. If they have chosen to use VGCharts as a source (which I think for WORLDWIDE SHIPMENT DATA is perfectly fine as I use the data that the publishers give out) then 1) I don't see the problem and 2) I resent being accused of 'pimping' my site when it's f**k all to do with me.
I think people are really overstepping the line just lately, and being quite personal and nasty with it as well.
I think people are really overstepping the line just lately, and being quite personal and nasty with it as well.
ziran said:
あかげさまでシリーズ合計１２００万本
It's basically saying that the series sold 12 million.
Makes perfect sense since nintendogs and English Training DS are at 1.25 Million, the Brain games at almost 8 Million total, and we have smaller games like Clubhouse games and Tetris DS (is that a part of the lineup?)
I don't have my charts in front of me, but from memory ...
Nintendogs:
Japan - 1.3 million
USA - 2 million
Europe - 3 million
Brain Training:
Japan - 2.7 million
USA - 0.4 million
Europe - ?
Gentle Brain Training:
Japan - 1.3 million
USA - 0.1 million
Europe - ?
Brain Training 2:
Japan - 2.8 million
USA - N/A
Europe - N/A
Daredemo (Clubhouse Games):
Japan - 0.5 million
USA - N/A
Europe - N/A
English Training:
Japan - 1.2 million
That's 15.3 million worldwide (9.8 million Japan), right there. They're probably just talking about Japan, then.
Nintendogs:
Japan - 1.3 million
USA - 2 million
Europe - 3 million
Brain Training:
Japan - 2.7 million
USA - 0.4 million
Europe - ?
Gentle Brain Training:
Japan - 1.3 million
USA - 0.1 million
Europe - ?
Brain Training 2:
Japan - 2.8 million
USA - N/A
Europe - N/A
Daredemo (Clubhouse Games):
Japan - 0.5 million
USA - N/A
Europe - N/A
English Training:
Japan - 1.2 million
That's 15.3 million worldwide (9.8 million Japan), right there. They're probably just talking about Japan, then.
thanks cvxfreak and donny2112.
yeah, i thought it was more like 12 million in japan. it's a very impressive stat.
you're site is a great resource and you clearly put a significant amount of time and effort into it and personally i thank you for doing so, and i think there are others who feel the same way.
for whatever reasons you're going to get flack for whatever you post on a message board, so i wouldn't take it too seriously, just know you're doing a good job which is appreciated
yeah, i thought it was more like 12 million in japan. it's a very impressive stat.
to be honest ioi, i'd just ignore it and let it go.ioi said:
you're site is a great resource and you clearly put a significant amount of time and effort into it and personally i thank you for doing so, and i think there are others who feel the same way.
for whatever reasons you're going to get flack for whatever you post on a message board, so i wouldn't take it too seriously, just know you're doing a good job which is appreciated
dittoziran said:to be honest ioi, i'd just ignore it and let it go.
you're site is a great resource and you clearly put a significant amount of time and effort into it and personally i thank you for doing so, and i think there are others who feel the same way.
for whatever reasons you're going to get flack for whatever you post on a message board, so i wouldn't take it too seriously, just know you're doing a good job which is appreciated
Well using my false / made up / invented / fake / exaggerated (delete where appropriate) data we have:
Brain Training- 2.86m
Brain Training 2- 3.17m
English Training- 1.37m
Nintendogs- 1.36m
Brain Flex- 1.30m
Clubhouse Games- 0.62m
Shaberu! Oryouri Nabi- 0.21m
Total- 10.89m
Plus whatever else they counted- Travel Phrasebooks (200k)? Kanji Dictionary(175k)? etc
Brain Training- 2.86m
Brain Training 2- 3.17m
English Training- 1.37m
Nintendogs- 1.36m
Brain Flex- 1.30m
Clubhouse Games- 0.62m
Shaberu! Oryouri Nabi- 0.21m
Total- 10.89m
Plus whatever else they counted- Travel Phrasebooks (200k)? Kanji Dictionary(175k)? etc
the touch generations list in japan is pretty big:ioi said:
http://touch-ds.jp/mfs/index.html
yoshi touch and go
another code
pac pix
band bros
kirby cc
ouendan
meteos
nintendogs
brain training
japanese dictionary
big brain academy
daredemo asobi taisen
touch golf
animal crossing
mario kart
english training
brain training 2
metroid pinball
kanji dictionary
translating software (thai, korean, german, etc)
tetris
nsmb
sudoku
cooking nav
opera browser
which seems way more than 12 million(?)
edit - just using guesstimates i get ~17.5 million... i wonder what nintendo was referring to?
ziran said:
They must be referring to the main percieved 'touch generation' titles. I can't imaging they are including Mario Kart, Tetris, NSMB, Kirby, Band Bros etc- that's basically all Nintendo titles and it has been reported a number of times that sales of Nintendo first party titles on DS in Japan are over 20m.
A Link to the Past
Banned
ioi said:
Don't be stupid, ioi. The people who added the link to the article came to Wikipedia for the sake of adding that link - at least, I take that from the fact that their very first edit was to add your link to the article. Why the Hell would they do that? Hmm?
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
Once again, since this is Sales-Age most of the time, ioi is helping not hurting. i consider his site an extension of all the sales discussion that goes on.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
fixedduckroll said:
At least, now I know someone to bitch for McLaren collapsing next season
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
HEY GUYS NO MORE LINKING ITS WHORING DURR
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well, let's just assume that you have raving fans who will put your site up for no reason that doesn't seem to be anything other than linkspam, and just focus on the fact that you try to avoid the nasty detail that your sales figures are estimates, and especially when you posted shipped figures for Nintendo DS games and called them sold.
You dumb, ioi
You dumb, ioi
A Link to the Past said:
1) I found the Wikipedia article this morning and the figures that are used in the article ARE FROM MY SITE. Therefore the source is MY SITE. Whoever has created the article has obviously used MY SITE to do so by the looks of things. And it was most definitely not me who created the article.
2) You have obviously not read any of my threads / explanations etc. The WEEKLY sales figures are 'estimated' by effectively averaging data from MC / Famitsu / Dengeki and then in cases where we have other data (usually publishers figures) adjusted to better reflect those. The worldwide software data is based on PUBLISHER DATA and is SHIPMENTS. However, in most cases the figures are going to be only a few % higher than sell through under normal circumstances, unless for some reason people f*cked up and there were lots of unsold copies of the game. For games that have stopped selling, SHIPPED = SOLD THROUGH (or close enough for the difference to be insignificant when comparing two games). Since all games in the chart are publishers shipped numbers then all games are 'tarnished' with whatever inaccuracies you think exist and so are all on an equal footing anyway. If some games were sold through and others shipped then I could see your point, since the data is used to show RELATIVE performances and all games are shown with shipped data then what is the problem?
3) I may be a little arrogant, stubborn or whatever sometimes, but I'm definitely not dumb
I suggest before making any more inaccurate, uneducated and stupid posts, you'd read this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95061
Maybe then you'll know what you are talking about and have some grounds from which to make a constructive criticism.
cvxfreak said:
Well that argument is nothing to do with me. Take it up with whoever made the article. I provide a website with data which is, to the best of my knowledge, as accurate as possible. Whatever politics exist on Wikipedia or anywhere else is nothing to do with me, so back to my original reason for posting I this thread- some kind of apology or retraction would be nice for the original accusations made.
A Link to the Past
Banned
ioi, you forgot douche bag in your list of descriptors for yourself!
Why did you bring up that the article uses your figures? Have you ever considered that might make you look like an ass, because it only shows that your site merely confused people into believing that your figures are halfway reliable in the industry and they can be called fact. So, before you attempt to defend yourself, take into consideration that your vagueness towards what your site actually is caused a list of hundreds of games to be corrupted from actual data to yours (which doesn't even make an attempt to use the figures from Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Media Create, Famitsu, Dengeki or any other source when they update how much a certain game has sold).
Why did you bring up that the article uses your figures? Have you ever considered that might make you look like an ass, because it only shows that your site merely confused people into believing that your figures are halfway reliable in the industry and they can be called fact. So, before you attempt to defend yourself, take into consideration that your vagueness towards what your site actually is caused a list of hundreds of games to be corrupted from actual data to yours (which doesn't even make an attempt to use the figures from Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Media Create, Famitsu, Dengeki or any other source when they update how much a certain game has sold).
You've hit the nail on the head, ALTTP.
It's not ioi's site that bothers me, it's the constant "these are only estimates" is always put on the back burner by ioi.
It messed up wikipedia because of that.
Herein the problem lies.
You know completely well that the most accurate data is from the weekly sales charts we get every week or month. You know it, and honestly, considering this forum is high on getting official data because it's all kept track of, you should start acting like you know that those numbers of yours are just twisted by whatever method you have. If you think it's reliable, if other people think it's reliable, fine, but it's just about as sane as saying the GameFAQs poll is a perfectly good indicator of how the industry is going. No matter what, it's pretty much lying to people when you try to disguise your figures as being just as reliable as official publications who track video game sales as a business and company. Sure, you don't think you are lying, but your complete lack of making people aware, and the Wikipedia Corruption shows it, IS misleading people, and therefore, that IS your fault.
I have no sympathy for you until you make it abundantly clear that your numbers are not as reliable as MC, Famitsu, Dengeki, NPD, etc. Those are the official sources.
It's not ioi's site that bothers me, it's the constant "these are only estimates" is always put on the back burner by ioi.
It messed up wikipedia because of that.
Herein the problem lies.
You know completely well that the most accurate data is from the weekly sales charts we get every week or month. You know it, and honestly, considering this forum is high on getting official data because it's all kept track of, you should start acting like you know that those numbers of yours are just twisted by whatever method you have. If you think it's reliable, if other people think it's reliable, fine, but it's just about as sane as saying the GameFAQs poll is a perfectly good indicator of how the industry is going. No matter what, it's pretty much lying to people when you try to disguise your figures as being just as reliable as official publications who track video game sales as a business and company. Sure, you don't think you are lying, but your complete lack of making people aware, and the Wikipedia Corruption shows it, IS misleading people, and therefore, that IS your fault.
I have no sympathy for you until you make it abundantly clear that your numbers are not as reliable as MC, Famitsu, Dengeki, NPD, etc. Those are the official sources.
You do understand that MC, Famitsu, Dengeki and NPD are also "only estimates." Ioi has explained the source of his numbers so many damn times that anybody who still doesn't understand where they come from is a ****ing moron! He shouldn't have to put up a disclaimer every single time. His numbers are reliable enough. If you don't like him posting his sales numbers in a sales thread then why are you even in here? Give him a break.CoolTrick said:
Shamrock7r
Member
JJConrad said:
... because it is a thread about the Media Create Charts, and not ioi's.
It seems to me that the people who are bitching about ioi's numbers are the same people who obsess about whether a Media-Create total is 2,986,346 or 2,986,436 (or whatever) as if exact numbers like that are ever accurate.
Furthermore, it bears repeating that the worldwide totals are very official shipment numbers from the publishers themselves which are clearly more accurate than cumulative totals from various trackers, especially for older (and/or sold out) games.
Furthermore, it bears repeating that the worldwide totals are very official shipment numbers from the publishers themselves which are clearly more accurate than cumulative totals from various trackers, especially for older (and/or sold out) games.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Oh, I didn't know that! Great argument, because Media Create, a PROFESSIONAL COMPANY which makes estimates, ioi's word is equal to theirs! Except thast no one should give a shit about what he says.
And no, people are not idiots for not realizing these numbers, which ioi vaguely states are estimates deep down on his web site, are estimates.
Can someone just ban the word vgcharts from NeoGAF already?
And no, people are not idiots for not realizing these numbers, which ioi vaguely states are estimates deep down on his web site, are estimates.
Can someone just ban the word vgcharts from NeoGAF already?
So are Famitsu and Dengeki, yet they often disagree with each other more than ioi, as ioi's weekly Japanese numbers is an average of all three. (Sometimes adjusted to reflect shipments, which are the only truly official numbers we get.)A Link to the Past said:
Considering that ioi not only rounds the numbers to the nearest 250 to emphasize this but also that the only way to ever get something other than estimates is the direct publisher data, I'd personally disagree with that.A Link to the Past said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Jokeropia said:
...*face palm*
Yes, PROFESSIONAL WEBSITES DISAGREE WITH EACHOTHER. Is there a point to saying Mr. No One Gives A Shit About What He Says ioi disagrees with people whose job it is to estimate numbers?
And they think that Media Create is spot on accurate. The fact that PROFESSIONALS use estimates has nothing to do with the fact that ioi parades his numbers as fact (and no, don't bring up any of the crap you mentioned in the previous post - how is the fact that he rounds his numbers not a vague fact?).
What the hell? It's not that ioi disagrees with MD/Dengeki/Famitsu, it's that he uses an average of all three. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.A Link to the Past said:
Eh? He doesn't present them as fact anymore than anyone else does. Just because you don't post a disclaimer saying that they are estimates every freaking time (is this ever done in these MD threads? No, instead there are often discussions about statistically negligible differences in people's cumulative totals) it doesn't mean you pass them off as fact, especially considering that they are rounded. Surely you understand why a rounded number is less likely to be construed as exact than one that is written out to single digits?
CoolTrick said:
Yes, because Wikipedia was a bastion for 100% truth before that.
CoolTrick said:
The ironic thing is, that based on past history and shipments, ioi has proved that claim false a number of times. The tracking sites are sets of estimates. If they were the most accurate sources of sales numbers, they would agree with each other.
The idea then comes up, "What is the most accurate data source?" and ioi has decided that to be publisher shipped figures. That's his take. I'm fine with that being his take. It definitely has the advantage of being the maximum possible sales figure.
A lot of people on the boards have decided to just plainly use the tracking sites' numbers with the understanding that they are an estimate. For the most part, I'm with that group.
It doesn't make ioi's numbers less meaningful, but you have to understand the meaning of his numbers. The problem I have with other places sourcing ioi's numbers is that they aren't referencing them as "shipped" but usually as "sold." ioi himself would tell you that's incorrect, but without that being plainly specified on his site, non-GAF members are getting confused.
Again, as I've said quite a few times, ioi's numbers are fine as long as you understand where he gets them.