• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Starfield 30fps cap “not a sign it’s unfinished” claims God of War Ragnarok dev

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
I wouldn't say unfinished, but a sign of laziness.

We must have a different definition of a lazy game. I'd never call a game that offers as much freedom as Starfield 'lazy'. If Starfield lazy, what we should call a game that don't even allow you to jump when you want to jump?
 

Kvally

Member
Why did you respond with a laugh emoji at the guy 2 posts above ? Can't you respect other people's opinion ? Just 'cause you don't have a problem does it mean that everyone else should share the same opinion ? Is having options a bad thing now ? How? why ?
I laughed because I always laugh at anyone that says devs are lazy.
 
Last edited:

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
The only reason to not have a 60fps mode IMHO is when the game is CPU bound. On GPU is just a matter of drop resolution and/or some quality presets.

The PC version will give us some insight on what is causing trouble for consoles. I'll be playing on PC anyway, it just a shame that this game don't have a performance mode on consoles.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Why did you respond with a laugh emoji at the guy 2 posts above ? Can't you respect other people's opinion ? Just 'cause you don't have a problem does it mean that everyone else should share the same opinion ? Is having options a bad thing now ? How? why ?

It’s a perfectly apt response to ‘lazy devs’ rhetoric.
Nobody said having options are a bad thing. Pitching it as ‘laziness’ is silly.

Not surprised you endorsed that post though.

The irony of you not recognizing that emoji responses are also an opinion too 😂
 

Nankatsu

Member
We must have a different definition of a lazy game. I'd never call a game that offers as much freedom as Starfield 'lazy'. If Starfield lazy, what we should call a game that don't even allow you to jump when you want to jump?

I didn't meant the game itself was lazy, just it's optimization.
 
I laughed because I always laugh at anyone that says devs are lazy.
OK, if it makes you feel better...
It’s a perfectly apt response to ‘lazy devs’ rhetoric.
Nobody said having options are a bad thing. Pitching it as ‘laziness’ is silly.

Not surprised you endorsed that post though.

The irony of you not recognizing that emoji responses are also an opinion too 😂

Ahhh, the typical defensive Ozriel is back, it's pretty funny, it's like you disappear only to show up again in these kind of threads - always Microsoft related obviously - doing the usual defence-force thing that you do.At this point, not only it is expected but also incredibly transparent, it's gotten to the point of being astroturfing but it's well hidden (or at least, you seem to think so) behind your "eloquent" posts.

Again, the fact that you're (usually) well-spoken doesn't hide the fact that you're clearly batting for a specific "team" to the point that - at the very least - you should be getting paid for doing so (if you're not already being paid).
Shilling at its finest, anyone already knows what you're gonna type before even reading your posts, maybe you should take take a hard look at that.

Maybe the mods should really look at your post history 'cause, my man, it's clear as day, and you have the gall to even call out others ?

Take care, cheerio
 

Kvally

Member
OK, if it makes you feel better...
Video Game Nod GIF by Naughty Dog
 
After watching the Starfield Direct presentation, this game looks amazing. 30fps is fine. I would have preferred 60, but it won’t be a deciding factor on my enjoyment for the game. It’s not like it’s Doom, COD, or Halo.
 

Gudji

Member
Old PCs will run the game just fine and most at 60 FPS.

XSX? Nah breh shit can't do 60 FPS even if runs circles around old PCs.

🤣
 
  • Like
Reactions: B23

Ultra Donny

Member
Neogaf is more focused on the technical stuff than the audiophile forums when discussing new stuff. Not my focus but I appreciate the dedication.
 
Last edited:

93xfan

Banned
People were rightly shittting on Spencer's comment. He could have handled it a mile better but he fluffed his lines and created another mess. 30fps is not the end of the world and it definetely doesn't mean it's unfinished.
No, the problem is with these rabid fanboy jackasses.

Everyone here should know what was meant. they targeted 30 because of what would’ve been sacrificed to hit 60 on console.
 

93xfan

Banned
Not being a stable 30fps while showing PC footage is a sign it's unfinished.
Not being released yet is a sign it is unfinished.

You don’t know how old the build is. Optimization happens at the end. Zelda TotK was getting shit on before the day one patch that fixed the frame rate
 
No, the problem is with these rabid fanboy jackasses.

Everyone here should know what was meant. they targeted 30 because of what would’ve been sacrificed to hit 60 on console.
Maybe people would believe that excuse if anything about Starfield looked impressive.
 
I mean it's obviously a choice and not a limitation. Doesn't mean it's the right choice.

It should have a 60fps option at a lower resolution like 1440 or 1080 even.

I honestly doubt the 30fps cap has much to do with the resolution or the fidelity. CPU usage has very little scale with graphical fidelity and resolution, given the performance profile of this engine and the scope of what they are doing here, significant cuts to the core game play mechanics would have likely been required to lock a consistent 60. The "creative" decision is that they refused to undercut their game to make the higher frame rate happen.
 
Get out of here, I have never heard of a situation where targeting 60fps ever sacrificed this mysterious god-"gameplay". How ironic this SSM Graphic dev quoting DF for predicting 30fps when he clearly worked on a game that has performance AND HFR mode 🤦‍♂️ .

Look at the list of this sub-par 60fps and some *gasp* 120fps that selfishly sacrificed, the gameplay:


You realize that almost every game there is either last-gen (surprise, surprise last-gen games can hit 60 on current-gen hardware), severely compromised in 60fps mode, or Esports titles. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I've never seen a group of "gamers" that fight for complete development stagnation as much as some of you guys. Enjoy your last-gen games, that's as good as it ever gets for you apparently.

Time and budget will limit most games to thresholds that will certainly keep 60fps on the table, but to raise pitchforks against games that are trying to increase the scope and scale beyond that is absurd. If at some point they get it optimized to hit 60 without cutting anything, yeah! Progress in the medium itself trumps both visuals and framerates for me personally.
 
Last edited:

ReBurn

Gold Member
Also, it's misleading to say "its a choice". If your force to choose an option, it's not really a choice, is it?
Depends. Bethesda made the choice to not include a performance mode. You get to make the choice to play the game or not. So you still get to choose whether you play at 30 fps.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
No, the problem is with these rabid fanboy jackasses.

Everyone here should know what was meant. they targeted 30 because of what would’ve been sacrificed to hit 60 on console.
Spencer fucked up. He is paid enough to take his job seriously and prepare. How he didn't realise the question would be asked is impressive (not in a good way), and his half arsed response showed lack of preparation. He could have said 30 at launch and look into 60fps versions that do not detract from the studio's vision. Instead he implied the consoles could do it, but the studio decided against it.

Spencer was rightly mocked, but there was never a comment that the game devs made an unfinished game until that Dreamcast Space Cadet tweeted it.
 
Spencer fucked up. He is paid enough to take his job seriously and prepare. How he didn't realise the question would be asked is impressive (not in a good way), and his half arsed response showed lack of preparation. He could have said 30 at launch and look into 60fps versions that do not detract from the studio's vision. Instead he implied the consoles could do it, but the studio decided against it.

Spencer was rightly mocked, but there was never a comment that the game devs made an unfinished game until that Dreamcast Space Cadet tweeted it.

I think that most knew what he was saying. The hardware never changes and can never be the problem, the software is built against that. The difference between 30fps and 60fps is equal to half the total power of the box, any game can be built for 60 or even 120 but the milliseconds of processing time per frame drops proportionally with that as does the complexity of the software that can be made.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
I think that most knew what he was saying. The hardware never changes and can never be the problem, the software is built against that. The difference between 30fps and 60fps is equal to half the total power of the box, any game can be built for 60 or even 120 but the milliseconds of processing time per frame drops proportionally with that as does the complexity of the software that can be made.
"We obviously have games that are running at 4K/60 on the platform. It’s not a platform issue, it’s a creative decision."

What do you pull from the above comment by Spencer?
 
Last edited:

AngelMuffin

Member
It does, at 30 frames per second speed ;D (joking aside cant expect open world next gen only game to run stable 60fps on 500$ mashine, we got high end pc rigs for that, that cost 1k usd+), like this rig, i can guarantee 1440p high in 60fps stable there, but price tag 1112usd https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XYTKyK which means u gotta pay over 2,2x higher price for 60fps and u still wont get 4k, but rather 1440p, in terms of pixels 1440p is 78% more vs full hd, 4k is 4x more.
Yeah, I understand. Not being at 60fps isn’t going to deter me from playing the game. Just thought that quote from Microsoft was cringe af.
 
"We obviously have games that are running at 4K/60 on the platform. It’s not a platform issue, it’s a creative decision."

What do you pull from the above comment by Spencer?

Exactly what I already stated. Everything said there is objectively true.

A game like FM is going to run 4k 60 on XSX. Starfield isn't. The creative decision with FM is that the framerate comes first and they micromanage around that (which they were unbelievably good at on the base X1). With an RPG like Starfield, I'm taking it that the devs wisely decided that the mechanics of the game were more important than the frame rate, thus their creative decision was refusing to undercut their vision to fit the 60fps frame time.
 
Man, do you remember the shit HFW got and 30fps started trending on twitter when the trailer for HFW was released at 30fps?


I'm glad it took a Bethesda game of all things, a studio known for poor optimisation and stupidly linking physics and AI to framerate in their games for people to be more accepting of low framerates and no performance options though.
Your like an onion……so many layers to your complex…
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Anyway, I see it's still #2 on Steam for paid games. Well, I guess Steam Deck isn't a game, but it is number one. So I guess Starfield is #1 on Steam still for paid games.
It's a Bethesda game... on the PC... I would be shocked if it wasn't, and it's irrelevant to this topic.
 
Spencer fucked up. He is paid enough to take his job seriously and prepare. How he didn't realise the question would be asked is impressive (not in a good way), and his half arsed response showed lack of preparation. He could have said 30 at launch and look into 60fps versions that do not detract from the studio's vision. Instead he implied the consoles could do it, but the studio decided against it.

Spencer was rightly mocked, but there was never a comment that the game devs made an unfinished game until that Dreamcast Space Cadet tweeted it.
This. Thank you for having common sense.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Spencer fucked up. He is paid enough to take his job seriously and prepare. How he didn't realise the question would be asked is impressive (not in a good way), and his half arsed response showed lack of preparation.
He's used to curveballs like select politicians and celebrities get.
 
No one is asking for 4K60.
I'm aware, but that was the benchmark they're aiming for. So 30FPS it is. They chose fidelity over framerate. Odd thing is, people have been asking for better looking games. So technically everyone asked for 4K30.
 
Last edited:
You realize that almost every game there is either last-gen (surprise, surprise last-gen games can hit 60 on current-gen hardware), severely compromised in 60fps mode, or Esports titles. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I've never seen a group of "gamers" that fight for complete development stagnation as much as some of you guys. Enjoy your last-gen games, that's as good as it ever gets for you apparently.

Time and budget will limit most games to thresholds that will certainly keep 60fps on the table, but to raise pitchforks against games that are trying to increase the scope and scale beyond that is absurd. If at some point they get it optimized to hit 60 without cutting anything, yeah! Progress in the medium itself trumps both visuals and framerates for me personally.

Please keep looking, you'll see quite a bit if not all the major AAA SONY PS5 games that are part of the list. Let me know when you see one SONY exclusive that will be on 30fps without any performance mode.


And remember, it must "compromise" the gameplay. What ever the hell that means.
 
Last edited:
Please keep looking, you'll see quite a bit if not all the major AAA SONY PS5 games that are part of the list. Let me know when you see one SONY exclusive that will be on 30fps without any performance mode.


And remember, it must "compromise" the gameplay. What ever the hell that means.

What major AAA Sony games have been released that aren't last-gen or even PS3 ports? Ratchet and Clank? Is that the only one?

What I'm saying is absolute facts, you sound like you have a case of the fanboy feels real bad. LOL

It's simply scientific fact that developers have half the processing time to work with at 60fps that they would have had at 30fps. The games are literally half of what they could have been.

Now, some games might not push boundaries in any direction by design allowing the developers to fully realize their vision at 60fps or even 120fps. That obviously changes on a game by game basis. Bethesda's engine is notoriously heavy and they appear to have expanded a great deal on it, they would have likely been limited by a 60fps option.
 
What major AAA Sony games have been released that aren't last-gen or even PS3 ports? Ratchet and Clank? Is that the only one?

What I'm saying is absolute facts, you sound like you have a case of the fanboy feels real bad. LOL

It's simply scientific fact that developers have half the processing time to work with at 60fps that they would have had at 30fps. The games are literally half of what they could have been.

Now, some games might not push boundaries in any direction by design allowing the developers to fully realize their vision at 60fps or even 120fps. That obviously changes on a game by game basis. Bethesda's engine is notoriously heavy and they appear to have expanded a great deal on it, they would have likely been limited by a 60fps option.

So only Bethesda gets to claim to push boundaries in tech. Talk about living in a bubble. If all games were so inhibited by this so called frame-rate issue, 60fps would not have been presented as an option at all.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
Considering what we saw of the game, I'd say it's pretty luxurious if it runs at stable 30 FPS on Xbox Series X|S.

They decided to go for spectacle and scale instead of frame rate. It is a completely viable and valid artistic choice.
 
Last edited:

93xfan

Banned
So only Bethesda gets to claim to push boundaries in tech. Talk about living in a bubble. If all games were so inhibited by this so called frame-rate issue, 60fps would not have been presented as an option at all.
Also Flight Sim is 30. These are acceptable compromises for games that push the envelope.

Now if you all want to talk about and trash Redfall, be my guest.
 
Top Bottom