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[Low Moral Fibre]

We are finally starting to see current gen only games so we'll see more of this or at least the ones that have forced RT which is sounds like Starfield might as they talked about RT GI to do the real time lighting effects on planets.

The last two games I played on PS5 were Jedi Survivor which drops to 648p in performance mode and FF16 which must be near 720p in combat (seriously play the tutorial fight and watch the IQ drop the second you enter combat) and even then neither of them get anywhere near a locked 60fps. Both have RT that you can't turn off and not just the low res reflections Spider-Man has.

Raster only stuff can look great but I was watching that DF interview with the Layers of Fear devs and one of them said that not having to bake lighting thanks to Lumen saved tons of time as they could see changes in real time and didn't have to wait 10-12 hours for the lighting to bake and see if it looks right. I think more and more games will force some kind of RT so devs aren't forced to do things twice and the consoles are always going to struggle with RT.

 

[Corndog]

Its more a sign its a massive game that the current Xbox Series can't handle solid 60 fps and an even bigger sign those who play only on console could use a Pro Series X

Use your pc. I’m sure you have a capable one.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

You realize that almost every game there is either last-gen (surprise, surprise last-gen games can hit 60 on current-gen hardware), severely compromised in 60fps mode, or Esports titles.

I've never seen a group of "gamers" that fight for complete development stagnation as much as some of you guys. Enjoy your last-gen games, that's as good as it ever gets for you apparently.

Time and budget will limit most games to thresholds that will certainly keep 60fps on the table, but to raise pitchforks against games that are trying to increase the scope and scale beyond that is absurd. If at some point they get it optimized to hit 60 without cutting anything, yeah! Progress in the medium itself trumps both visuals and framerates for me personally.

It's GAF, a sizable percentage of the posters here don't even think it qualifies as a videogame if it's not a narrative-heavy 3rd person action adventure with stealth elements.

 

[Corndog]

I think people would be justified in calling a current gen game without an option for 60 fps undercooked.

People can say whatever they want.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Old PCs will run the game just fine and most at 60 FPS.

XSX? Nah breh shit can't do 60 FPS even if runs circles around old PCs.

Imagine the outrage if this happen when the game releases.

 

[genesisblock]

Also Flight Sim is 30. These are acceptable compromises for games that push the envelope.

Now if you all want to talk about and trash Redfall, be my guest.

Source: https://www.purexbox.com/news/2021/...ator_is_simply_terrific_on_xbox_says_analysis

As for the unlocked performance mode accessible via VRR supported TVs, Flight Sim can actually hit up to 120 frames per-second on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. However, this frame rate is said to be "highly variable", ranging from 50 to 120fps, and "serves to make the stuttering issues on Series X more noticeable" despite the fps improvement.

I found this by searching. Know that when DLSS and VRR starts improving their algorithms, this whole 30fps target will be gone for good.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

People can say whatever they want.

 

[Dolomite]

Always refreshing to see devs who work on rival consoles enjoying each other's games, or defending their respective creative decisions. Too much time on Gag and you forget that gamers start/fan the console wars not the engineers

 

[SlimySnake]

No sympathy for these devs. They trained players over the last 3 years to expect 60 fps while they phoned in last gen game after game with 60 fps modes. Now those 3 years of laziness is blowing up in their face, and they are finally getting their comeuppance.

Wait till you have some dumb marketing exec get wind of this massive pushback against 30 fps games. They ARE going to start intefering with the development process and shove 60 fps down our throats again causing games to once again become cross gen trash instead of the ambitious system driven games like Starfield and Avatar.

 

[SirTerry-T]

Knock yourselves out...

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

im sure all of the other signs its unfinished will be signs its unfinished

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Spencer fucked up. He is paid enough to take his job seriously and prepare. How he didn't realise the question would be asked is impressive (not in a good way), and his half arsed response showed lack of preparation. He could have said 30 at launch and look into 60fps versions that do not detract from the studio's vision. Instead he implied the consoles could do it, but the studio decided against it.

Spencer was rightly mocked, but there was never a comment that the game devs made an unfinished game until that Dreamcast Space Cadet tweeted it.

The game can probably run at 60FPS on Xbox Series X, however the graphics and textures would nosedive to the point of looking like this and constant asset streaming/pop-ups...

If Bethesda's vision for the game is to look good on current-gen hardware, then running at 60FPS is definitely a hit not worth taking.

 

[SportsFan581]

So only Bethesda gets to claim to push boundaries in tech. Talk about living in a bubble. If all games were so inhibited by this so called frame-rate issue, 60fps would not have been presented as an option at all.

I didn't say that at all, no. In some cases the optimization and framerate itself could be boundary pushing "look at what we are doing at 120fps" etc.


Back to this specific conversation, in order for Bethesda to continue pushing forward with their engine 60fps might not have been something they felt was feasable. They have said that the game is actually running at 60 in some areas, maybe they refine things more down the line, maybe they don't who knows. RPGs have a lot of CPU work going on in general, and this one allows you to drop explosives in heavy combat and things like that.

On one hand their engine might just be too heavy, but on the other their engine has made them arguably the best at their genre. They are going to stick with that.

 

[mckmas8808]

Source: https://www.purexbox.com/news/2021/...ator_is_simply_terrific_on_xbox_says_analysis

As for the unlocked performance mode accessible via VRR supported TVs, Flight Sim can actually hit up to 120 frames per-second on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. However, this frame rate is said to be "highly variable", ranging from 50 to 120fps, and "serves to make the stuttering issues on Series X more noticeable" despite the fps improvement.

I found this by searching. Know that when DLSS and VRR starts improving their algorithms, this whole 30fps target will be gone for good.

It won't be at all!!!! You still don't get it!

 

[SportsFan581]

No sympathy for these devs. They trained players over the last 3 years to expect 60 fps while they phoned in last gen game after game with 60 fps modes. Now those 3 years of laziness is blowing up in their face, and they are finally getting their comeuppance.

Wait till you have some dumb marketing exec get wind of this massive pushback against 30 fps games. They ARE going to start intefering with the development process and shove 60 fps down our throats again causing games to once again become cross gen trash instead of the ambitious system driven games like Starfield and Avatar.

That's the scariest part of it. Even if there are only 3 or 4 really ambitious games in an entire generation, I want to have those games. I don't want to be waiting an extra generation or two for the concepts to be possible at X framerate on the hardware of the day because some suit thinks the games won't sell enough on console without the 60fps mode. I'm not getting any younger here, LOL.

Honestly I believe the exact opposite is far more likely to happen though. A general malaise against games that play a little too "last-gen" will start to crystallize and it will actually be those games that start to have issues with user sentiment and devs will find their way back to pushing the limits of the hardware at 30fps because that is easier to sell (outside of the genres that always prioritize framerate). I think we are seeing a little of that already with Spider-Man 2.

Medium to high-end PC will always be there to provide more frames if you are willing to pay the price for the hardware. When you look at the CPUs in these consoles (both have been released as limited products with the GPUs deactivated) they seem to be a little less performant than a 3600 or around a 2700x or so in gaming (huuuuge improvements from last-gen to be sure). To that end, I expect there will be a lot of PCs out there that can run things at 60fps that the consoles can't. That goes without saying, I don't see that as a big gotcha moment. The only fly in the ointment for PCs on the CPU side is the cost of accelerating NVMe storage, which the consoles are better positioned to do.

 

[Viking Warrior]

Crap like this is making think that the Halo Infinity haters are out in full force trying to discredit the game for no reason. They will find all kinds of things wrong with it even if it's the game this generation (not saying it will be or not be), they will frantically do anything to drop it to a 7/10.
A lot of them won't ever even play it.

That said I secretly still hope for a 60fps mode at some point, or even a 40fps mode.

If you want to play this game at 60fps you will have to play on PC, series X NOT going to happend.

 

[Viking Warrior]

No, the problem is with these rabid fanboy jackasses.

Everyone here should know what was meant. they targeted 30 because of what would’ve been sacrificed to hit 60 on console.

So Bethesda does not care what is sacrificed on PC to hit 60fps? All those poor PC users running this game at 1080P 60 and 1440P 60, the horror, they don't know what their missing!!!!

 

[93xfan]

So Bethesda does not care what is sacrificed on PC to hit 60fps? All those poor PC users running this game at 1080P 60 and 1440P 60, the horror, they don't know what their missing!!!!

You assume resolution is the only issue. How do you know there aren’t CPU limitations? If it is as simple as doing flipping a switch, then sure, give us the option.

But it usually is much more than that to make sure such a massive game consistently hits the 16ms mark per every frame in so many different environments and scenarios.

 

[THE DUCK]

If you want to play this game at 60fps you will have to play on PC, series X NOT going to happend.

I'd put a bet on that it will, eventually......
I'm covered either way.

 

[FireFly]

I didn't meant the game itself was lazy, just it's optimization.

And optimization can mean making tradeoffs that they don't want to make.

You design the game around a particular visual fidelity and associated framerate. You can't just double performance at the end of the project without making significant cutbacks.

 

[Alebrije]

60 fps 4k with full ray tracing and all the jingles will be possible for PS6 or PS7 .....

So meanwhile enjoy what you get from Series X or PS5...

 

[Kvally]

Also Flight Sim is 30.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

They can spin this the way they want but the reason this game is capped at 30 fps is to guarantee parity between series x and s. Series x could run this game at 60 fps with an internal resolution of 1080p or a bit higher and then upscaled to 4K and it would look good still… but series s can’t handle this game at 60 fps without major sacrifices to resolution, asset quality and draw distance so to avoid series s buyers to feel they have a inferior version they capped this at 30 fps…

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I gotta say GAF has a bunch of Ponies, but compared to Twitter GAF's Ponies are tame. Between the surgeon violating HIPPA by posting raw footage of a patient in the middle of a surgery to console war, or Jaydub posting dick pics to the GOW devs in exchange for a release date the worst GAF Ponies are harmless.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Strange wording, I'm confused. People complained because it's not 60fps, not because it's "unfinished", for that, we'll see at launch and considering the Bethesda's pedigree about bugs...

 

[SportsFan581]

You assume resolution is the only issue. How do you know there aren’t CPU limitations? If it is as simple as doing flipping a switch, then sure, give us the option.

But it usually is much more than that to make sure such a massive game consistently hits the 16ms mark per every frame in so many different environments and scenarios.

If they are really not offering the 60fps option because they want to hit the max resolutions on the systems, someone string them up over there and get them to release lower res 60fps modes.

Like you said though it is much more likely that they got CPU limited in some areas and just ran the resolutions up because they had the headroom.

 

[01011001]

Also Flight Sim is 30. These are acceptable compromises for games that push the envelope.

Now if you all want to talk about and trash Redfall, be my guest.

Flight sim has an unlocked mode that can go to 60fps if you have a VRR screen.

any game should have that, modern consoles supported VRR since 2016, and modern TVs all have VRR support now.

 

[SportsFan581]

Flight sim has an unlocked mode that can go to 60fps if you have a VRR screen.

any game should have that, modern consoles supported VRR since 2016, and modern TVs all have VRR support now.

This might be something we see thrown in to Starfield as well by the time it releases. Makes it future-gen ready out of the box when they do that. Though I understand that some games have timing issues with unlocked framerates.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Flight sim has an unlocked mode that can go to 60fps if you have a VRR screen.

any game should have that, modern consoles supported VRR since 2016, and modern TVs all have VRR support now.

Hopefully this game doesn’t have the physics tied to the framerate, causing the lock without an unlock option.

Fallout 4's Engine Physics Tied to Frame Rate and Other Foibles | TechRaptor

techraptor.net

 

[01011001]

This might be something we see thrown in to Starfield as well by the time it releases. Makes it future-gen ready out of the box when they do that. Though I understand that some games have timing issues with unlocked framerates.

well games with old as fuck engines yes... and that could be the real culprit here.
they might have to lock to 30fps because their dogshit gamebryo engine can't handle a fluctuating framerate

 

[DeepEnigma]

well games with old as fuck engines yes... and that could be the real culprit here.
they might have to lock to 30fps because their dogshit gamebryo engine can't handle a fluctuating framerate

Yep. In Fallout 4, players would speed up and slow down depending on framerate fluctuations.

I believe they did change it for 76, but people speculate since they are locked at 60, anything higher are calculated by the servers. So not really an “engine fix.”

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/fallout-76-now-supports-higher-unlocked-framerates-physics-no-longer-tied-to-framerate/

 

[SportsFan581]

They haven't mentioned any kind of frame locks on PC however, which you often see if this is something the developer is concerned about.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They haven't mentioned any kind of frame locks on PC however, which you often see if this is something the developer is concerned about.

On the PC they can raise the framerate physics tether, like they did with 76.

If the game is capped at 30 on the console, the physics will be capped/tied along with it. “Design choice”

Let’s hope that is no longer the case at all with this engine, but so far, it always has been.

 

[coffinbirth]

why it took days to retract the statement is the question. as spokeperson he should clear of everything from very beginning. days later which mean it might not their inital believe as they changed mind later.

their PR afterward still revolve around this though


right, console warriors from both side, boasting and mocking each others based on statement or PR fueled by these platform company.

He had to clarify because people without critical thinking skills took that comment to mean 30fps was extinct. This wasn't even PR maneuvers, it was Twitter banter, ffs.

 

[coffinbirth]

Native 4K is such a waste of resources.

Good thing it's not native 4K, eh?

People really don't understand that NONE of this console gens games run at native 4K/60 save for GT7.