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[Kyoufu]

How do you think the z9d compares to the e6?

But yea, pricing looks good going into next year for Sony OLED. LG will have to match. Hopefully Panasonic will add additional pressure

No personal experience with the Z9D but from what I've seen in general, it looks like the best HDR performer but not as good as the E6 for SDR content. Both are top tier TVs so I guess the decision would come down to which TV tech you'd prefer, LCD or OLED. I personally wouldn't pay the asking price for Z9D when I could get an OLED instead, but that's just me. If you value HDR performance and brightness then the Z9D would be a solid choice.

One nice thing about the Z9D is the 75" option at a 4 digit price. I wish LG would offer that as well.

 

[dallow_bg]

I still don't believe those numbers.
Since when has Sony pushed a mass market price on a premium product.

 

[Kyoufu]

I still don't believe those numbers.
Since when has Sony pushed a mass market price on a premium product.

Yeah it doesn't seem like a Sony thing to do. Look at the Z9D and how much that costs.

 

[Kambing]

Anyone else have a problem with always wanting a bigger TV lol?

I swear, i went from a 55 oled, to a 65 oled. I remember thinking to myself, "holyshit this is way too big, definitely don't need anything bigger than this". Just recently however, i watched Fantastic Beast in IMAX San Francisco and yet again, here i am wanting a bigger TV. So much so, that i hope Vizio release an 85 inch version of their P series, that may tempt me to switch from OLED for the living room.

Was considering the projector route but no 4k models have resepectable lag. There is the 100 inch ZD9, but that retails for $60k, and the 77inch OLED, which is $20k. Too rich for my blood!

My perfect middle ground would be a huge mudafukin TV for movies and single player/campaign games. Seondary to that a 30-40 inch OLED monitor for precision gaming/work. Hoping CES delivers!

 

[Paragon]

First time I've heard that.
I've seen my fair share of clouding on IPS panel, moreso than on VA
Looking at rting and their black uniformity rankings, 8 of the ten worst ones are IPS with backlight bleeding and clouding issues for the most part

Yeah, looks like you're right as far as large televisions are concerned.
Most of my experience with IPS has been with monitors and mobile devices.

Those large LG panels look terrible.
The old IPS-Alpha panels that Panasonic produced were good, but those were all smaller than 50".

It really seems like everything is down to quality control.
Apple seems to have been far stricter on the panels that they deem to be of acceptable quality than LG themselves for example.

Devils advocate, but wouldn't LG having the most recent multi-year experience with OLED give them a leg up over Sony and Panasonic? I'm a huge fan of Sony AND Panasonic TVs (love my plasma with a fiery passion), but I'm not sure I expect their 2017 models to be significantly better than LGs (and they will most likely be more expensive, rumor aside).

Thoughts?

Sony have been producing broadcast OLED displays for longer than LG have been selling consumer OLED TVs.
They are built to the highest standards possible and calibrated to be essentially perfect - that's why they cost five figures for ≤30" displays.
So I think Sony knows a thing or two about OLED image processing.
They also introduced a PVM display this year which uses an LG panel, so they have experience working with them too.
It's telling that they don't consider those panels to be suitable to put in a BVM-class display though.

Panasonic have a similar pedigree in producing broadcast displays, and a lot of experience working with emissive displays.
I believe they also have some ex-Pioneer engineers working for them now.
They have applied novel approaches to fixing long-standing issues with LCD displays that other manufacturers have not addressed.

Though they have been improving, LG have shown that they don't have what it takes to produce a high-end TV.
They can manufacture good panels and sell expensive displays, but their image processing just isn't there.
Motion handling has been consistently poor on their OLED displays, they have issues with HDR tone mapping, they have banding issues, they have had undefeatable image processing in previous models, crush details near black, and have uniformity issues that should have been calibrated out at the factory.
Nothing compares to OLED's contrast or response times, but that's it.

LG are producing the best display panels, but I'd much rather have Sony, Panasonic, or even Samsung image processing driving it.

Well, Sony will be using LG panels and applying their own image processing and Smart TV OS. I think at the very least Sony's OLED will be better than LG's 2016 models at handling sub 4K content and possibly shadow detail. It's not possible to improve the blacks, and I doubt they'll squeeze more brightness out of the panels than LG has so far.
It'll be interesting to see who's 2017 model is better though (if Sony even releases one).

Don't LG's OLED displays have floating black level problems, or was that fixed with the 2016 models?
It was definitely an issue with the 2015 models, which Panasonic fixed in their display using the same panels.

 

[BumRush]

Sony have been producing broadcast OLED displays for longer than LG have been selling consumer OLED TVs.
They are built to the highest standards possible and calibrated to be essentially perfect - that's why they cost five figures for ≤30" displays.
So I think Sony knows a thing or two about OLED image processing.
They also introduced a PVM display this year which uses an LG panel, so they have experience working with them too.
It's telling that they don't consider those panels to be suitable to put in a BVM-class display though.

Panasonic have a similar pedigree in producing broadcast displays, and a lot of experience working with emissive displays.
I believe they also have some ex-Pioneer engineers working for them now.
They have applied novel approaches to fixing long-standing issues with LCD displays that other manufacturers have not addressed.

Though they have been improving, LG have shown that they don't have what it takes to produce a high-end TV.
They can manufacture good panels and sell expensive displays, but their image processing just isn't there.
Motion handling has been consistently poor on their OLED displays, they have issues with HDR tone mapping, they have banding issues, they have had undefeatable image processing in previous models, crush details near black, and have uniformity issues that should have been calibrated out at the factory.
Nothing compares to OLED's contrast or response times, but that's it.

LG are producing the best display panels, but I'd much rather have Sony, Panasonic, or even Samsung image processing driving it.

Good read, thank you!

 

[shadow2810]

Don't LG's OLED displays have floating black level problems, or was that fixed with the 2016 models?
It was definitely an issue with the 2015 models, which Panasonic fixed in their display using the same panels.

I read its still issue with 2016 models, but I never notice it anyway...

Personally I don't care about TV image processing much, I will just turn them off and have my HTPC do the work.

 

[sector4]

Personally I don't care about TV image processing much, I will just turn them off and have my HTPC do the work.

Whenever an image is on the screen the TV is processing the image, when we talk about how different companies handle this, it's not about superfluous features people are likely to turn off, it's how the display handles everything.

 

[dallow_bg]

Sheesh, with how bad these LG OLEDS were just described you'd think they'd be widely criticized in reviews instead of overwhelmingly recommended over just about all other sets available.

 

[Kyoufu]

Sheesh, with how bad these LG OLEDS were just described you'd think they'd be widely criticized in reviews instead of overwhelmingly recommended over just about all other sets available.

LG are incapable of making a high-end TV!

Meanwhile, on planet Earth...

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The summary of the summary is that Sony equipment has been used for decades in actual video production. The movie you watched yesterday was probably edited on Sony professional OLED displays, mixed by people listening with Sony headphones, has a decent chance of having been shot on Sony's cameras, and was projected in the theater you went to the other day using Sony's 4K cinema LCoS projectors.

It's not an illusion when people talk about Sony's advantages in producing home theater equipment. It's because of their pedigree in production. They've been quietly putting 10-bit panels on top-end consumer LCD TVs for over a decade now. They were the first to implement a wider color gamut than Rec.709, the unfortunately ignored xvYCC (x.v.Color). They were the only company to ever produce a TV with RGB LED backlights, the fabled XBR8 (Google it). They were the first to implement Quantum Dots on TVs, which has now become standard on high-end sets. And yes, they produced the 2016 Z9D, the first LCD TV with 600+ zones FALD LED backlights.

In terms of technical advancement, Sony is not a paper tiger. People just don't know about Sony's history, or why they and Panasonic refused to produce OLED TVs for a very long time. I'll give you a hint: Sony and Panasonic had been researching how to solve the problems of OLED's pixel wear and degradation a very long time before shelving it for consumer production. Samsung actually reached the consumer market with OLED TVs a few years ago, decided that the problem was not solved, and withdrew from the market. They have not re-entered it as of 2016.

So let's see what Sony has planned for 2017. CES is less than a month away.

 

[offtopic]

Boot into safe mode and change to 1080p, then disable HDCP. You might need to do this on a different TV before you can start using your Pro on your B6.

Ok so once I do this and then re-enable 4k it seems stable and HDR seems active (any way to test this?) but can't use the video apps (which is logical). Do we know if LG is trying to reduce lag and fix the HDCP in the next patch? Hell, I'd much rather them separate those two fixes as I much prefer HDCP to a few milliseconds lag. Its enough to make me return the B for a C and I detest the image-warping, screen-shrinking curved screen.

 

[dallow_bg]

And in the consumer world Sony has been lagging.
Their very best sets look great of course, but their competitors can look just as good if not better in different areas.

They all have their pluses and minuses.

I'm just not kidding myself that a Sony OLED in 2017 will blow away the competition at half the price.
That's hyperbole. I'm sure they'll make a very nice TV though and I'm looking forward to getting real details on it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I still don't believe those numbers.
Since when has Sony pushed a mass market price on a premium product.

Sony spun off their TV division a few years ago. Now that the TV division have to stand on their own, they have been pricing very aggressively on everything except their halo flagships, which this year was the Z9D. I saw lots of Sony sets on sale for Black Friday.

 

[panty]

I might just wait for next years models. The 65" B6V/P doesn't feel to be worth the 3000€ price tag and seems to be the crappiest of the 2016 Oled's so I think I'll just wait.

 

[vivftp]

This is OT, but I might have the chance to pick up a Sony HTIAB model BDVN9200W for less than 1/3rd the retail price...

http://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/all-in-one-home-cinema-systems/bdv-n9200w-n9200wl

I'm on the fence on whether I should go for it. I'll be very interested in picking up a 65" OLED next year if the rumored pricing is true, and I'll want a halfway decent audio system. Budget might be more of a concern then, but that's several months from now. The alternative is to not buy this system and instead pick up a receiver and some halfway decent speakers, but no matter how I cut it, I'll wind up spending considerably more than I would by buying this HTIAB package.

I guess I just wanted to toss it out there any see what others think. It'll be a system that's connected to a future OLED TV, a PS4 Pro and my PC. It'll be better, but not SIGNIFICANTLY more so than the current HTIAB I have, which is this model, the Sony HTSF360...

http://www.sony-asia.com/support/product/HT-SF360


To spend $300, or not to spend $300 (Canadian)... It doesn't look like I should have much of a problem passing through 4K signals through this unit. I'm less sure about the requirements for HDR pass through... anyone care to chime in?

 

[vivftp]

*SNIP*

Great post, and let's not ignore their CLEDIS display technology. It's such a shame they never got a consumer CLED TV out to market, but this thing seems amazing on the Pro side of things. Still have high hopes to see it enter the consumer market at some point in the future. All the advantages of OLED with none of the drawbacks. Not to mention the potential to build a TV as large as you want with the lego-like segmented design.

 

[mrklaw]

Sheesh, with how bad these LG OLEDS were just described you'd think they'd be widely criticized in reviews instead of overwhelmingly recommended over just about all other sets available.

pointing out some areas where LG might be lagging behind in the processing stakes doesn't make them *bad* TVs. It just means there is room for improvement and both Panasonic and Sony have both a huge amount of image processing experience and expertise, and experience with OLED. So I would expect both Panasonic and Sony to be capable of producing better OLED sets than LG, using the same panels.

Price however is another matter. Sony are hardly ever competitive there. A few things might come together to back up those rumoured prices though
- Prices in general should come down on OLED as volumes increase
- LG may have been making a big margin as the only OLED supplier so there is more capacity than with LCD to bring prices down
- Sony may stick with the ZD line as their 'premium' models, mainly due to increased brightness and possibly easier to produce at larger screen sizes. This may mean the OLEDs sit at the high end of their mid-range sets and therefore can not command the same kind of premium.

I can see them having something like
- Top end: ZD9 equivalent, an evolution of their existing FALD set - with increased brightness and focusing on HDR and nits in marketing messages
- high-mid range : OLED sitting where the current XD93/XD94 are
- X8xx range - Sony bringing the edge-lit local dimming from the XD93/94 down to this range.

 

[Peltz]

Maybe I'll grab an OLED Sony PVM to go with my CRT PVM. Gaming on professional monitors has its advantages. And I'm not a size-whore by any means.

 

[Kyoufu]

Ok so once I do this and then re-enable 4k it seems stable and HDR seems active (any way to test this?) but can't use the video apps (which is logical). Do we know if LG is trying to reduce lag and fix the HDCP in the next patch? Hell, I'd much rather them separate those two fixes as I much prefer HDCP to a few milliseconds lag. Its enough to make me return the B for a C and I detest the image-warping, screen-shrinking curved screen.

Which region are you in? Also, the input lag reduction is much more than a few milliseconds so you should certainly look forward to it

 

[Fox1304]

I had an update this morning on my LG OLed for Amazon Prime Video, maybe it'll finally fix the 4K/HDR Streaming ? I'll try tonight.

 

[offtopic]

Which region are you in? Also, the input lag reduction is much more than a few milliseconds so you should certainly look forward to it

North America. I do look forward to the improved input lag but the lack of HDCP compatibility with the PS4 Pro (although Sony is somewhat culpable here as well) seems like it is missing just a basic feature.

 

[Paragon]

They were the only company to ever produce a TV with RGB LED backlights, the fabled XBR8 (Google it).

They also had the Qualia 005 back in 2004, four years before the XBR8 was released.
Good post though, I agree with all of your points.

Sony spun off their TV division a few years ago. Now that the TV division have to stand on their own, they have been pricing very aggressively on everything except their halo flagships, which this year was the Z9D. I saw lots of Sony sets on sale for Black Friday.

And I would argue that the flagships are the only "real Sony" displays in terms of build quality and innovation.
People often lament that "they don't build them like they used to" - well Sony do, it just comes at a price.
That's not to say that the other Sony displays aren't good, but they're not what I think of back in the '80s and '90s back when everyone wanted a Sony because of their reputation for quality.

Unfortunately most people only look at size and price when buying a new display, the high-end market largely seems to be dying out.
Pioneer left years ago, and both Panasonic and Sony have been really struggling.

Great post, and let's not ignore their CLEDIS display technology. It's such a shame they never got a consumer CLED TV out to market, but this thing seems amazing on the Pro side of things. Still have high hopes to see it enter the consumer market at some point in the future. All the advantages of OLED with none of the drawbacks. Not to mention the potential to build a TV as large as you want with the lego-like segmented design.

Yes, CLEDIS is really impressive.
Hopefully one day they will turn it into a consumer product.
Imagine if you could buy a 75" CLEDIS "base" display and then add more tiles to it as budget permits.

I really want to see something like this replacing projectors.
The home projector market has been stagnant the past five years or so with very little progress and could do with a shake-up.
4K projectors are still at ridiculous prices, and LED/laser light-source projectors even more-so.

 

[Kyoufu]

North America. I do look forward to the improved input lag but the lack of HDCP compatibility with the PS4 Pro (although Sony is somewhat culpable here as well) seems like it is missing just a basic feature.

North America? Well, the B6 HDCP issue update has been available for quite some time:

http://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers

Put in your model name and download the 04.30.65 update.

 

[HStallion]

And in the consumer world Sony has been lagging.
Their very best sets look great of course, but their competitors can look just as good if not better in different areas.

They all have their pluses and minuses.

I'm just not kidding myself that a Sony OLED in 2017 will blow away the competition at half the price.
That's hyperbole. I'm sure they'll make a very nice TV though and I'm looking forward to getting real details on it.

They very well may have amazing top of the line quality OLED sets but this is Sony, your mistake was the half price part. They are probably the most expensive sets out there compared to their peers. The Z9D costs more than most any OLED model in the same size and output range.

 

[dallow_bg]

pointing out some areas where LG might be lagging behind in the processing stakes doesn't make them *bad* TVs. It just means there is room for improvement and both Panasonic and Sony have both a huge amount of image processing experience and expertise, and experience with OLED. So I would expect both Panasonic and Sony to be capable of producing better OLED sets than LG, using the same panels.

Price however is another matter. Sony are hardly ever competitive there. A few things might come together to back up those rumoured prices though
- Prices in general should come down on OLED as volumes increase
- LG may have been making a big margin as the only OLED supplier so there is more capacity than with LCD to bring prices down
- Sony may stick with the ZD line as their 'premium' models, mainly due to increased brightness and possibly easier to produce at larger screen sizes. This may mean the OLEDs sit at the high end of their mid-range sets and therefore can not command the same kind of premium.

I can see them having something like
- Top end: ZD9 equivalent, an evolution of their existing FALD set - with increased brightness and focusing on HDR and nits in marketing messages
- high-mid range : OLED sitting where the current XD93/XD94 are
- X8xx range - Sony bringing the edge-lit local dimming from the XD93/94 down to this range.

It was specifically the "LG can't make high-end TVs" statement that irked me when they clearly do. I'm surprised they're still not being given credit for what they've done.

Someone else stressed how Sony and Panasonic have been working on OLED for consumers for years to make sure it's ready... ok.

Has everyone forgotten that Panasonic did release an OLED model recently (not in US)?
Reviews stated that image quality and some panel quirkiness from LG were slightly improved over LG's model, but they were marginal. Certainly not 'blowing them away'.
And a cost even greater than LG's G6 model, or Sony's ZD9.
If you're spending that kind of money you'd definitely want a more substantial upgrade.

They very well may have amazing top of the line quality OLED sets but this is Sony, your mistake was the half price part. They are probably the most expensive sets out there compared to their peers. The Z9D costs more than most any OLED model in the same size and output range.

I only mentioned "half the price" because that is what the rumors stated.

 

[jstevenson]

lol all the Sony love.

I mean, when was the last time Sony had the true winner in terms of the best high-end TV you could buy? The Super Fine Pitch CRTs?

The SXRD was the best rear-pro, but the Kuros beat it (though in the value price band, SXRD was great). Panny Plasmas owned since then, and LG OLEDs are the current king. Sony hasn't been king of the hill for high-end TVs in a decade.

Yes, their processing is good. Yes LG's upscaling is not as good. I let my receiver's upscale handle the upscale to 4k to my E6. My cable TV content looks good (beyond TWC's compression to hell of it). My One S / Pro ensure everything on those platforms looks great.

To be fair, the ZD9 is the only other high-end TV worth considering. If I lived in a country where it was the cheaper option, I'd probably own of those instead of the OLED.

But man, we're making it out like LG's processing is horrific compared to Sony's. Or that Sony's processing beats it out.

Grasping at STRAWS here. It was like once the ZD9 didn't actually defeat the OLED in terms of pure image, people started grabbing onto processing. You didn't hear about that 6 months ago.

 

[ukas]

lol all the Sony love.

I mean, when was the last time Sony had the true winner in terms of the best high-end TV you could buy? The Super Fine Pitch CRTs?

The SXRD was the best rear-pro, but the Kuros beat it (though in the value price band, SXRD was great). Panny Plasmas owned since then, and LG OLEDs are the current king. Sony hasn't been king of the hill for high-end TVs in a decade.

Yes, their processing is good. Yes LG's upscaling is not as good. I let my receiver's upscale handle the upscale to 4k to my E6. My cable TV content looks good (beyond TWC's compression to hell of it). My One S / Pro ensure everything on those platforms looks great.

To be fair, the ZD9 is the only other high-end TV worth considering. If I lived in a country where it was the cheaper option, I'd probably own of those instead of the OLED.

But man, we're making it out like LG's processing is horrific compared to Sony's. Or that Sony's processing beats it out.

Grasping at STRAWS here. It was like once the ZD9 didn't actually defeat the OLED in terms of pure image, people started grabbing onto processing. You didn't hear about that 6 months ago.

.

 

[offtopic]

North America? Well, the B6 HDCP issue update has been available for quite some time:

http://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers

Put in your model name and download the 04.30.65 update.

Yeah I have that firmware and yet as soon as I enable HDCP the signal starts cutting in and out rather violently (mostly black screen with some flashes of UI). Its really confusing.

 

[Calibrated Chaos]

Hi GAF - not sure if this is the right place for this but I will try anyway. I have a Vizio M55 C2 and it has one 4K 60hz input and multiple 4K 30hz inputs. I have both the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One S. Do both consoles need that 60hz port? I just want to get the best out of both consoles with this TV without having to switch the HDMI cord every time. And yes I am aware that this TV does not have HDR.

Thanks!

 

[Crimson_Gold]

lol all the Sony love.

I mean, when was the last time Sony had the true winner in terms of the best high-end TV you could buy? The Super Fine Pitch CRTs?

The SXRD was the best rear-pro, but the Kuros beat it (though in the value price band, SXRD was great). Panny Plasmas owned since then, and LG OLEDs are the current king. Sony hasn't been king of the hill for high-end TVs in a decade.

Yes, their processing is good. Yes LG's upscaling is not as good. I let my receiver's upscale handle the upscale to 4k to my E6. My cable TV content looks good (beyond TWC's compression to hell of it). My One S / Pro ensure everything on those platforms looks great.

To be fair, the ZD9 is the only other high-end TV worth considering. If I lived in a country where it was the cheaper option, I'd probably own of those instead of the OLED.

But man, we're making it out like LG's processing is horrific compared to Sony's. Or that Sony's processing beats it out.

Grasping at STRAWS here. It was like once the ZD9 didn't actually defeat the OLED in terms of pure image, people started grabbing onto processing. You didn't hear about that 6 months ago.

I understand your point. I don't think LG is bad by any means. I'm just hoping for good competition all around on price, specs and performance. The best value for me will get my dollars. I do want something with great 3D though. I love 3D

 

[Weevilone]

lol all the Sony love.

I mean, when was the last time Sony had the true winner in terms of the best high-end TV you could buy? The Super Fine Pitch CRTs?

The SXRD was the best rear-pro, but the Kuros beat it (though in the value price band, SXRD was great). Panny Plasmas owned since then, and LG OLEDs are the current king. Sony hasn't been king of the hill for high-end TVs in a decade.

The SXRD had plenty of problems though too. The first one I had couldn't be properly converged so the RGB pixels were out of alignment. It was terrible, and that wasn't uncommon. Then they had the major flaw where the whole display would be taken over with a green haze because the optic block was failing. Sony didn't do shit until they faced a class action suit, and even then if I recall it was a sorta secret recall that relied on the customer to raise hell to get it taken care of. They finally settled in a shitty replacement strategy.

https://sites.google.com/site/sonyl...k-problems---Sony-discount-settlement-program

Ugh.. Good technology wasted was my takeaway from that Sony era.

Regarding the ZD9, I would have been happy to consider one if they made a 55". Not having one at that size hurst a lot IMO, regardless of how legit the reasons are.

 

[Tarin02543]

Sony have been producing broadcast OLED displays for longer than LG have been selling consumer OLED TVs.
They are built to the highest standards possible and calibrated to be essentially perfect - that's why they cost five figures for ≤30" displays.
So I think Sony knows a thing or two about OLED image processing.
They also introduced a PVM display this year which uses an LG panel, so they have experience working with them too.
It's telling that they don't consider those panels to be suitable to put in a BVM-class display though.

Panasonic have a similar pedigree in producing broadcast displays, and a lot of experience working with emissive displays.
I believe they also have some ex-Pioneer engineers working for them now.
They have applied novel approaches to fixing long-standing issues with LCD displays that other manufacturers have not addressed.

Though they have been improving, LG have shown that they don't have what it takes to produce a high-end TV.
They can manufacture good panels and sell expensive displays, but their image processing just isn't there.
Motion handling has been consistently poor on their OLED displays, they have issues with HDR tone mapping, they have banding issues, they have had undefeatable image processing in previous models, crush details near black, and have uniformity issues that should have been calibrated out at the factory.
Nothing compares to OLED's contrast or response times, but that's it.
.

I have one! Behold the PVM-740 OLED:

My pride and joy. This will hold me over until I can get my hands on a Sony or Panasonic consumer OLED tv (not LG!)

One thing I have to make clear to everyone is the exact difference between this and the LG panels, it looks like a CRT image trapped in a 2002 LCD frame.

The motion resolution is extremely fast, you can actually emulate a scanning CRT image and if you move your eyes fast enough, you can see the refreshing frames.

 

[Weevilone]

I have one! Behold the PVM-740 OLED:

The juxtaposition of old and new in that pic is great!

I really wanted one of those tiny OLED TVs Sony sold in their now defunct stores. I heard they closed them out at crazy prices but I missed it.

 

[Alfredo_V]

Sitting on a Panasonic Plasma from 2010, loving it still but I start to get the itch for an upgrade (4K, HDR, etc).
Anyone know any rumors about what Panasonic will come up with next year?

 

[Tarin02543]

The juxtaposition of old and new in that pic is great!

I really wanted one of those tiny OLED TVs Sony sold in their now defunct stores. I heard they closed them out at crazy prices but I missed it.

Here, have some more:

 

[Paragon]

The SXRD was the best rear-pro, but the Kuros beat it (though in the value price band, SXRD was great). Panny Plasmas owned since then, and LG OLEDs are the current king. Sony hasn't been king of the hill for high-end TVs in a decade.

The Kuros were up against the XBR8 and the HX900, not their SXRD displays.
Perhaps you don't remember this image that was doing the rounds after a shootout between the XBR8 and the Kuros. The XBR8 is on the left.

The bottom comparison also shows why I've never considered blooming to be a problem on local-dimming LCDs - at least not on the better displays.
Blooming is visible - but the black level and contrast is still better over the entirety of the display.
It doesn't work in all situations, but I really think the problem is overblown.
OLED is obviously better in this regard with per-pixel control, but OLED can't match these local-dimming LCDs in brightness.

It was specifically the "LG can't make high-end TVs" statement that irked me when they clearly do. I'm surprised they're still not being given credit for what they've done.

They make great panels.
The image processing is not what I would expect from a high-end TV after previously owning high-end Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer displays.

Has everyone forgotten that Panasonic did release an OLED model recently (not in US)?
Reviews stated that image quality and some panel quirkiness from LG were slightly improved over LG's model, but they were marginal. Certainly not 'blowing them away'.

I think everyone agrees that the Panasonic display has better image processing and overall image quality is better than the LG displays.
I think we can also agree that it was absolutely not worth the ridiculous price that they were asking for those features.
Wasn't it almost twice the price of the equivalent LG set?

Right now, everyone is being blind-sided by the amazing contrast of these OLED displays.
Once we start seeing that sort of contrast combined with really good motion handling for example, I think people will start to admit that motion handling on the LG OLEDs is quite poor just now.
Just as Pioneer plasma owners started to admit that the black level was not quite as "perfect" as they claimed once these OLEDs were available.

I seem to recall a lot of people being "blown away" by the OLED display Panasonic had on show at IFA this year.
New Panasonic OLED TV Steals The Show Again

But man, we're making it out like LG's processing is horrific compared to Sony's. Or that Sony's processing beats it out.
Grasping at STRAWS here. It was like once the ZD9 didn't actually defeat the OLED in terms of pure image, people started grabbing onto processing. You didn't hear about that 6 months ago.

It's not horrific, but it's not what I would expect from a high-end display either.
I don't have a dog in this race. I'm content to stick with my existing display which doesn't have many of these problems (brightness, motion handling, uniformity, shadow detail) until they sort it out.
I'll buy whichever display ends up being best for gaming.
I'd prefer that it was sooner rather than later though, as I would like an HDR-capable display.

As I've said many times, OLED clearly has the best contrast and response times of anything right now - but that's where it ends.
I don't think you can definitively say that OLED is guaranteed to have the best image quality.
The new advancements in LCD technology from Panasonic and Samsung are really exciting stuff - but some people downplay them because they're still LCDs and couldn't possibly compete.

That Sony may be selling an OLED display without a significant mark-up over LG's own sets is also really exciting.
There's no guarantee that Sony will fix everything that is wrong with LG's displays - they may be limited in what they can do when they're using the same panels.
But I can't wait for the day that someone fixes the motion handling of OLED displays, because they have the potential to be so good.

And maybe it will end up being LG.
I really hope that they are forced to step up and produce the TV that these panels deserve.
It's great that they have this lead over everyone else right now, because it's clearly pushing things forward.

And I don't mean to suggest that these are bad displays in any way.
I just find it difficult to spend that sort of money on them when they do have many issues right now.

 

[Fox1304]

I had an update this morning on my LG OLed for Amazon Prime Video, maybe it'll finally fix the 4K/HDR Streaming ? I'll try tonight.

Yessss!
Quoting myself here, HDR 4K is up and running with the latest update on LG oleds !

 

[Weevilone]

Here, have some more:

Hmm, my desk is cluttered enough that the wife wouldn't notice that baby ..

And if I hadn't just bought the LG E6P and an Oppo 203 she might not miss the $1500.

 

[holygeesus]

Right now, everyone is being blind-sided by the amazing contrast of these OLED displays.
Once we start seeing that sort of contrast combined with really good motion handling for example, I think people will start to admit that motion handling on the LG OLEDs is quite poor just now.
Just as Pioneer plasma owners started to admit that the black level was not quite as "perfect" as they claimed once these OLEDs were available.

That's just progress though isn't it? The 2015 LG OLEDs received excellent reviews, despite their (IMO many) flaws, yet the 2016 has improved significantly on them. They aren't without flaws, but each generation seems to iron out problems, which is really what advances in technology is about, in this regard.

For me though, I can't see Sony producing a 'value' OLED like the B6, and likewise, I can't see LG even producing one next time round, as to improve on this generation, as well as keep the price competitive (especially so here in the UK!) is asking a lot, especially when yield results are still not spectacular.

 

[Paragon]

That's just progress though isn't it? The 2015 LG OLEDs received excellent reviews, despite their (IMO many) flaws, yet the 2016 has improved significantly on them. They aren't without flaws, but each generation seems to iron out problems, which is really what advances in technology is about, in this regard.

Well no, we have had displays with much better motion than the OLEDs for years now.
Sony's LCDs with the impulse motionflow are one example of that.
OLED has great contrast but motion is a clear step backwards from those displays.
The thing I care about most in a TV is how it handles games. I want that contrast but I'm not going to buy an OLED TV to get worse motion than I have now.
OLED has the potential to have some of the best motion because its response times are so low, but the screens need to get a lot brighter and have to flicker.

For me though, I can't see Sony producing a 'value' OLED like the B6, and likewise, I can't see LG even producing one next time round, as to improve on this generation, as well as keep the price competitive (especially so here in the UK!) is asking a lot, especially when yield results are still not spectacular.

I'm not expecting a "value" OLED from them, but $500-1000 more than the equivalent LG doesn't seem unreasonable, unlike Panasonic's OLED which was almost double the price.

 

[sector4]

Just adding to the conversation, on the contrary to those rumours, I wouldn't expect Sony's OLEDs to be cheaper than LG's own, I'd be very surprised if they didn't carry a significant premium.

The Resi 7 demo has 2 calibration modes for HDR, one for peak nit brightness which goes up to 2000, and another for general HDR brightness, mine gets to 1400 till the box disappears, see what you think.

I got to 1850 before the box disappeared :O I was very impressed with how good it looks, the sun pouring into the kitchen through the venetian blinds looks awesome! That calibration at the start is great, hopefully more games follow suit, rather than the more ambiguous sliders.

I'm not sure how Motionflow settings are named now in newer models. Impulse was the old name for the backlight strobing mode. But just turn on Game Mode and see if anything Motionflow-related is available.

When in game mode on the Z9D the only Motionflow option available is custom, and you can adjust the clear setting, that's it. All the other modes (Standard, Clear, PureCinema etc) are not available.

 

[BumRush]

The knocks on the LG sets are maybe a bit hyperbolic in here. It's not just the contrast that looks great on them, the picture as a whole is unreal.

 

[Insane Metal]

The knocks on the LG sets are maybe a bit hyperbolic in here. It's not just the contrast that looks great on them, the picture as a whole is unreal.

It seems to me that people simply don't like LG as a whole and decided to say those things.

 

[BumRush]

It seems to me that people simply don't like LG as a whole and decided to say those things.

Agreed. I'm not a professional, but when I look at the OLEDs (2016, specifically) I immediately think "holy shit" not "damn this thing has issues"

 

[NYR]

I had an update this morning on my LG OLed for Amazon Prime Video, maybe it'll finally fix the 4K/HDR Streaming ? I'll try tonight.

Yessss!
Quoting myself here, HDR 4K is up and running with the latest update on LG oleds !

Fuck yes! Thank you! 4K/HDR working in Canada! Rewatching ep1 of TGT.

 

[offtopic]

So, I've always scorned the entire "your cables need to be upgraded movement". Well, it looks like it came back to haunt me with trying to display 4k/hdr via the ps4 pro to my B6. I just used the old cheap HDMI cables I used for the ps4 and figured it would work. Anyways, the flickering black screen made me think that HDCP wasn't working and I could sort of force it to work if I disabled HDCP and used only the non-RGB color mode but even then it cut out occasionally. I finally decided to see if it was the cable so I ran by Frys and picked up some hdmi cable that was certified for hdmi 2.0 (no, didn't get Monster...think it was like $15 for 10'). Well, problem solved! Great picture, no flickers, automatic color setting works, HDCP enabled.

 

[Kyoufu]

So, I've always scorned the entire "your cables need to be upgraded movement". Well, it looks like it came back to haunt me with trying to display 4k/hdr via the ps4 pro to my B6. I just used the old cheap HDMI cables I used for the ps4 and figured it would work. Anyways, the flickering black screen made me think that HDCP wasn't working and I could sort of force it to work if I disabled HDCP and used only the non-RGB color mode but even then it cut out occasionally. I finally decided to see if it was the cable so I ran by Frys and picked up some hdmi cable that was certified for hdmi 2.0 (no, didn't get Monster...think it was like $15 for 10'). Well, problem solved! Great picture, no flickers, automatic color setting works, HDCP enabled.

...your PS4 Pro comes with a high-speed HDMI cable.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Agreed. I'm not a professional, but when I look at the OLEDs (2016, specifically) I immediately think "holy shit" not "damn this thing has issues"

Maybe I'm projecting, but I think a lot of the people who point out flaws in LG OLEDs acknowledge that they're among the best if not the best displays available right now. At this price and quality tier, buyers are much more discerning than your average TV buyer. If I could have any mass produced TV right now, it would be an LG OLED. It's hands down the best picture quality I've ever seen in person. So why haven't I bought one at the relatively low prices they've dropped to lately? I'm waiting for 2017 OLEDs to see if LG or anyone else improve/fix outstanding issues, e.g., higher brightness, better input lag, better near-black performance, better motion handling, less image retention, etc.. I want the best to be even better.

 

[Kyoufu]

Maybe I'm projecting, but I think a lot of the people who point out flaws in LG OLEDs acknowledge that they're among the best if not the best displays available right now. At this price and quality tier, buyers are much more discerning than your average TV buyer. If I could have any mass produced TV right now, it would be an LG OLED. It's hands down the best picture quality I've ever seen in person. So why haven't I bought one at the relatively low prices they've dropped to lately? I'm waiting for 2017 OLEDs to see if LG or anyone else improve/fix outstanding issues, e.g., higher brightness, better input lag, better near-black performance, better motion handling, less image retention, etc.. I want the best to be even better.

So you're never going to buy one? TVs get better every year.