Backfoggen
Banned
Some people seem to believe that plasma style image retention is the only type there is. There is image retention with OLED but in most use cases it's not visible and more importantly not permanent.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
holygeesus
Banned
Exactly.
Nice. Thats a few $100 back in your pocket.
Yup. Since there are only two HDMIs I'll probably set up a receiver sooner rather than later.
Anyone have receiver suggestions?
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is a pretty funny post now, when plasma was still around no one ever talked about the burn-in that plasma had. It was only after plasma died that people came out of the woodwork to admit that yeah, they had plasmas which burned in.
Anyways, I'll be interested in the rumored Sony OLED sets that they might or might not be interested in announcing at CES 2017. If this is the case, we can talk about the check you'll cut me in advance. I'll put the check in a drawer and not cash it, and let's hope I'll never have to.
This is hilarious, it's like there haven't been Super AMOLED panels on phones for something like 6 years now or that I haven't already owned 3 phones which have Super AMOLED panels or that all 3 phones don't have visible burn-in where the Android notification bar permanently sits.
Wait, what? That's always been the knock on plasma, because some years ago it was actually an issue.
RadarScope1
Member
Subbing - great timing. I've just been peripherally paying attention to TV tech the last few months as it seems like things are getting to the point where an upgrade is worth it for me. (I bought I higher end 46 in Panasonic plasma at the end of 2008 after months of research, and I hope to change my living room setup next year with a new, much bigger display.) Glad to see my thoughts confirmed by the AV heads here! Sounds like next month's CES is the time to really tune in.
Like I said above, I'm only into TV tech at a very surface level and even I know this is incorrect. When I was researching TVs throughout 2007 and 2008, the talk about burn-in and IR on plasma was very much alive online. But even by 2008 it had mostly been mitigated if you were buying a quality TV (I would not have taken a chance otherwise). And that was long before plasma ended its run...
Like I said above, I'm only into TV tech at a very surface level and even I know this is incorrect. When I was researching TVs throughout 2007 and 2008, the talk about burn-in and IR on plasma was very much alive online. But even by 2008 it had mostly been mitigated if you were buying a quality TV (I would not have taken a chance otherwise). And that was long before plasma ended its run...
darkazcura
Member
I don't know what you are talking about, but the main reason my family didn't pick up a plasma over a decade ago was because of burn in. Burn in with plasmas was a very well known issue that was talked about quite often. When I stopped following the TV market, I was quite surprised to hear that some manufacturers were actually able to mitigate the issue before the tech died out of the mainstream. That doesn't really line up with what you are saying here.
Futurevoid
Member
Burni-in was mostly mitigated if you didn't do stupid things on the TV, yes (i.e. Leave the TV on with a blazing white logo for 48 hours straight). IR remained an issue but a mostly minimal one if you had a quality plasma display. The problem is people don't separate permanent burn-in from temporary image retention and lump them into the same bucket as a One all boogeyman. We're seeing the same with OLED.
I've had my B6 for over a month and have played through the entirety of Titanfall 2, The Last Guardian, Mafia 3 and Gears of War 4 (2 of those games in HDR) with not an ounce of IR on the screen (and I'm coming from a VT50 plasma where IR was noticeable). This is with 4-5 hour gaming sessions.. Take that as you will. Or don't! If folks don't want to hear from actual owners, I don't know what to say.
Is this real life?
holygeesus
Banned
You realise that technology advances right? The 2016 range counter burn in by cleaning the panel every time it is switched off when used for 4 hours or more.
Seriously, either do some research or listen to those of us who actually own these sets here and now, rather than believe that because you once owned a phone with primitive OLED technology, that you know what you are talking about.
My mind's pretty much made up by now so dear people of this thread, please dissuade me from buying the LG PF1000U short throw projector before I start drilling holes in my walls to mount the screen.
My reasoning:
- projectors are frickin cool
- I can get an 84" screen where I will prolly never be able to afford a TV that size
- creating temporary & total darkness in my media room is not a problem
Product page:
http://www.lg.com/us/home-video/lg-PF1000U-smart-led-projector
Incredibly corny Linus video warning:
https://youtu.be/e7ZUrdO4sN4
My reasoning:
- projectors are frickin cool
- I can get an 84" screen where I will prolly never be able to afford a TV that size
- creating temporary & total darkness in my media room is not a problem
Product page:
http://www.lg.com/us/home-video/lg-PF1000U-smart-led-projector
Incredibly corny Linus video warning:
https://youtu.be/e7ZUrdO4sN4
LOL
Burn-in and the "dim" picture as misinterpreted by in-store demos with high ambient lighting were about the only things that people did talk about in regard to plasma. That's why it's dead.
I don't agree with that.
I have two Panasonic plasmas (42PZ86 and 42ST60) and can get persistent IR quite easily, especially on the former.
And I'm not doing anything crazy for 48 hours, jus watching a soccer game for example is enough.
On the 42PZ86 it took months for the Street Fighter IV bars to disappear and that's a game I played around one hour a day at the time.
It was all I could see when watching a 21/9 movie.
Things are better with the 42ST60 but far from perfect.
I remember back in 2008/2009 before I bought my first plasma, everybody was saying that burn in and even persistent IR was a thing of the past....yeah right...
Having said that, I'd still take my ST60 over most LEDs
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Man dude, you talk about how you haven't followed these TVs in forever but then make claims like technology hasn't advanced.
B/C/E/G6 cover somewhere between 96-98% of DCI-P3.
Then we get into a completely different OLED display by a different company.
Then we equate back to another completely different display type and company.
Good lord man, cut the FUD out. Don't buy it if you don't want to, or buy with a return policy and play the same game for a couple weeks, I dunno.
Futurevoid
Member
The wonders of expeirience and opinion.
I never claimed perfection, I claimed minimal and I can only speak for my experience having owned a VT20, VT25 and a VT50. The last years of plasma sets had indeed made major gains in reducing those problems. Between the screen clean function and running the pixel flipper on the Disney WOW disc for a few hours at the end of the month, I never had IR that would last more than a day or two. Outside of the first day that I had the VT50 and watched the presidential debate on CNN and had the bars/logo retain for nearly a week....lol.
On that note, I had the THX picture mode enabled and I didn't realize the pixel shift function couldn't be enabled using that mode. I calibrated cinema mode for most viewing/gaming which allows the pixel shift and THX for movie watching.
Lesson learned.Unknown Soldier
Member
You just gave me an idea. I wonder what would happen if I bought an OLED and tortured it out of the box for weeks with an MMO, those games have a ton of fixed UI elements which don't move for hundreds of hours of play.
We can put this discussion conclusively to rest. I'll try to work out some kind of test plan when I have time next year, because I actually want to know the answer too.
What's your budget and what kind of speakers are you pairing it with?
I recently bought a Denon X4300H and love it.
Ended up with it after testing many others. I can answer any questions you have.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
would be curious and expect that while you'd see some image retention, there'd be no permanent burn-in a clear panel noise wouldn't fix.
Futurevoid
Member
It's already been done.
http://televisions.reviewed.com/fea...creen-burn-in-problems-causes-image-retention
...and that's with an older model OLED, not the improved 2016 models. Feel free though. Be interesting to see where you end up with it.
I'd prefer to spend ~$500- $700 on the receiver itself...not sure about speakers yet, but open to suggestions.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
yeah, I got the 4200 on clearance recently to replace an Onkyo 3007 (*sheds tear*) and the Denon is keeping up with than Onkyo which was really high end.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's already been done.
http://televisions.reviewed.com/fea...creen-burn-in-problems-causes-image-retention
...and that's with an older model OLED, not the improved 2016 models. Feel free though. Be interesting to see where you end up with it.
I don't think you understand how much I want to believe, because there were many things I loved about my VT60 and I'd like most of those things back. If I sound skeptical in this thread it's because of my previous experiences with emissive display tech but
If Sony produces an OLED in 2017 I'll be very interested in buying a one and conducting such testing and also compare it with my current Sony 65X900A, which predates HDR and also 4K/60 with RGB 4:4:4 support.
There are some 1080p OLED sets out there I think, no clue how good there are though. At this point you might as well go for 4K, its not like 4K is going to detract from anything.
Assuming this is the be-all end-all TV thread here, I had a few small questions that perhaps some people here could answer. My TV is the LG OLED E6, by the way.
1. What are the most recommended settings for 3D (primarily for movies, also includes 3D depth and view)?
2. Why is it recommended to put de-judder at 10 but leave de-blur at blank for movies?
3. A few games that have HDR also have HDR brightness options that seem to be incorrect or off. For example, Gears of War 4 has an HDR brightness setting that asks that you turn the slider until the icon in the middle is not visible. To achieve this, I would have to set the slighter all the way to the left (lowest setting), and even then it's still somewhat visible. Is it recommended to just ignore those settings and just slide the HDR bar all the way to the max?
4. This gets brought up a billion times, but there always seems to be conflicting answers. For the PS4's RGB setting, is it better to set it for Auto or Limited? Seems Limited is what you want it to be at ideally as Full reduces details (At least according to one guide).
1. What are the most recommended settings for 3D (primarily for movies, also includes 3D depth and view)?
2. Why is it recommended to put de-judder at 10 but leave de-blur at blank for movies?
3. A few games that have HDR also have HDR brightness options that seem to be incorrect or off. For example, Gears of War 4 has an HDR brightness setting that asks that you turn the slider until the icon in the middle is not visible. To achieve this, I would have to set the slighter all the way to the left (lowest setting), and even then it's still somewhat visible. Is it recommended to just ignore those settings and just slide the HDR bar all the way to the max?
4. This gets brought up a billion times, but there always seems to be conflicting answers. For the PS4's RGB setting, is it better to set it for Auto or Limited? Seems Limited is what you want it to be at ideally as Full reduces details (At least according to one guide).
holygeesus
Banned
It all makes sense now. If the current LG range had a Sony badge on the front you would accept it. Unbelievable.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Has anyone bought from Cleveland plasma before? If so, how was your experience? Looking to make a purchase after CES
Nothing better than a projector for sheer size. Even my budget benq w1070 looks great in a light coloured room, but if you can keep it dark, ideall dark walls at least near the screen, it's just fantastic
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
This is the continuation of the same TV thread you were in before.
1. I have no issue with default / ISF mode
2. You have this backwards. De-judder 0, deblur somewhere between 5-10.
3. That pattern doesn't work right in my mind. I assume they are referring to the bird in the middle, not the entire cog (though this is counter to the regular brightness above it). The only thing that really changes is that bird... and you'd ideally be going for visible on the right, barely visible in the middle, and not visible on the left. In HDR Game mode that's a few clicks to the right, perhaps, but definitely not maxed.
4. Limited
You have to match up the system all together. No use in pairing crap speakers with a nice receiver.
Audio setup depends on your budget, room size, and size restrictions.
For a receiver in that price range, I would recommend the Denon x3300w. It's the lowest end model in the lineup that allows amp pre-outs, MultiEQ XT32, and SubEQ, which makes a big difference after personal experience.
Personally, I am using large Klipsch Reference series speakers paired with an SVS PB2000 subwoofer. Good price performance ratio.
Oh yeah, 4K is exactly double the dimensions so it won't get any quality loss with a 1080p signal.
Cool great, thanks.
Thanks, bud. Will look into all 3 of these.
To be clear, you're only using the 2 speakers and the sub?
Yeah and if you dive in next year the prices of the current year OLED models should take a pretty decent price cut once the brand new ones hit the market.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The logo on the front has nothing to do with the discussions of potential problems with OLED technology. However I've always come back to Sony because I like the quality of their image processing and upscaling. Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic are known to excel at this compared to the other TV manufacturers and it matters in a world where most content is not natively 4K.
Sony is also one of the few TV manufacturers who have implemented backlight strobing in their LCD TV line. The LG OLEDs do not do this. I would be very interested in a Sony OLED set which blinked the OLEDs between each refresh, as that eliminates the sample-and-hold motion blur that OLED does not natively eliminate. This is how the high-end gaming LCD monitors with Lightboost work, they refresh at very high rates (120/144hz) and they strobe the backlight between each refresh to reset your visual persistence.
Also Sony and Samsung are offering TVs which have a very low input lag when set to Game Mode, this matters a lot for gamers and even moreso when you turn on HDR for gaming which tends to add additional lag.
It's a matter of preference. It doesn't "improve" the picture though...
No, I've got a 5.1
Klipsch RF82 as the tower fronts, RC62 for the center, and RS42 surround. Bought em 2 years ago. It's decidedly middle of the range as far as audio goes, but then again the sky's the limit in this market.
Whatever you do, make sure to match all of them to similar quality and brand.
If you can't afford the whole setup at once, you can get it piecemeal. Get a nice receiver and two high end towers first.
Don't skimp on the subwoofer either. If you have the space and budget, run 2 subwoofers. If not, get one very high quality one. SVS is fantastic.
Room acoustics are also important to keep in mind. Proper placement, positioning and calibration can make more of a difference than equipment.
You can pm me before pulling the trigger on something. I've spent hours researching and testing for audio stuff, so might as well put it to use and help someone out.
Beer Monkey
Member
Panasonic never caught up with Pioneer re: image retention, despite hiring some of the Pioneer engineers. 2008 Kuro remains the pinnacle of plasma tech.
I will DEFINITELY PM you.
If you have any helpful links I'll put them in the OP tonight.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
One thing I am really waiting to see at CES 2017 is the QDCF LCDs from Samsung and LG.
Samsung is claiming 98%.REC2020 color and since there is a Quantum Dot film in place of a color filter, they should be the brightest TVs ever (2000+nits) along with super wide view angles.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20161031PD203.html
http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engl...-electronics-unveil-quantum-dot-tvs-next-year
Samsung is claiming 98%.REC2020 color and since there is a Quantum Dot film in place of a color filter, they should be the brightest TVs ever (2000+nits) along with super wide view angles.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20161031PD203.html
http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engl...-electronics-unveil-quantum-dot-tvs-next-year
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
My Panasonic that died twice will always live in my heart
Crimson_Gold
Member
That's high praise. I like the prices I've been quoted. Just might take the leap.
Futurevoid
Member
Some of the better high-mid range Sony sets like the 930/940d have what some would consider pretty awful input lag in the mid 50's. The C6 and E6 OLED's were just recently updated with an HDR Game Mode that brought lag down to the mid-30's. The B6 has a similar update coming down the pike.
Crimson_Gold
Member
I could've sworn a recent 940d update was out that reduced input lag as well
Futurevoid
Member
It did. In beginning of November and if it's like the 930d, it dropped HDR lag down from over 110ms to 58ms.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x930d
Some here would consider that poor.(I'm not sensitive to input lag personally but it is what it is)
Crimson_Gold
Member
Well there it is. Thanks for that.