Support NeoGAF

[kevboard]

I'm really surprised the deck can't do steady 60 fps, I thought it did. Are you sure you don't have resolution scaling increased or something? The game is so lite on GPU usage. The only rare times I could sometimes see some drop, but it's extremely rare, only got it like 2 or 3 times in about 8 hours of gameplay, was when there was some smoke, like when stopping in specific places, and only for a very brief moment.

I have the lowest settings, no AA, 100% scale, lowest shadows, no motion blur.

it doesn't hold a perfect 60 when too much is happening.
could be more of a CPU issue, not a GPU one, not sure.
but given that the original game was designed around a 3 core CPU that had really weak multi threading, I could see this being the bottleneck here. (not even sure if 360 games actually made use of the multi threading...)

About the Werehog, the combat isn't Bayonetta, but I think it's not awful awful... it's just pointless, not fun, but it doesn't control badly. The main problem is that the Werehog levels are way too long, they should be at least 50% shorter. And the checkpoints for the werehog are badly made, for example you can have to go through 2 or 3 different wave / arenas of enemies, and then you try to do some platforming to get a moon a bit further, and you fall, you die, and you have to re do all the combats. This can be pretty tedious, it happened to me earlier today.

One big recommendation however is to turn off the battle music in the options (a new feature from this port). It really doesn't feel as awful without it. I know it's just the music and this might sound exagerated, but it makes a big difference. Because the combat feel more seamless with the explore, when you don't have the music switching to battle theme every time there's one enemy on screen. It's still tedious, but not as irritating.

I turned the battle music off yeah.

the combat feels stiff and lacks any dynamism. it's really just a chore every time
blocking feels clunky, dodging feels stiff and clunky... just nah...

 

[SomeGit]

I'm really surprised the deck can't do steady 60 fps, I thought it did. Are you sure you don't have resolution scaling increased or something? The game is so lite on GPU usage. The only rare times I could sometimes see some drop, but it's extremely rare, only got it like 2 or 3 times in about 8 hours of gameplay, was when there was some smoke, like when stopping in specific places, and only for a very brief moment.

About the Werehog, the combat isn't Bayonetta, but I think it's not awful awful... it's just pointless, not fun, but it doesn't control badly. The main problem is that the Werehog levels are way too long, they should be at least 50% shorter. And the checkpoints for the werehog are badly made, for example you can have to go through 2 or 3 different wave / arenas of enemies, and then you try to do some platforming to get a moon a bit further, and you fall, you die, and you have to re do all the combats. This can be pretty tedious, it happened to me earlier today.

One big recommendation however is to turn off the battle music in the options (a new feature from this port). It really doesn't feel as awful without it. I know it's just the music and this might sound exagerated, but it makes a big difference. Because the combat feel more seamless with the exploration that way, when you don't have the music switching to battle theme every time there's one enemy on screen. It's still tedious, but not as irritating.

The CPU and GPU usage doesn't seem to spike up when it drops, it's probably either bandwidth related since it usually when there is a lot of particles or the game just isn't very multithread friendly and it chokes on the ST performance for draw calls or physics.

 

[kevboard]

The CPU and GPU usage doesn't seem to spike up when it drops, it's probably either bandwidth related since it usually when there is a lot of particles or the game just isn't very multithread friendly and it chokes on the ST performance for draw calls or physics.

yeah, I also think the CPU could be an issue.
the 360 had 3 cores, 6 threads. I bet that CPU also couldn't be fully used by games as the 360 did have a pretty advanced and feature rich OS that could handle background music, background downloads and party chat across all games and while switching titles etc.

something the PS3 for example never really could catch up to due to hardware constraints.

the IBM CPU cores were also not that great at multi threading, so who knows if the CPU was even used as a 6 thread CPU or simply as a straight 3 core CPU with SMT disabled.

so it's possible that the game only really uses 2 threads, maybe 3.

 

[Spiral1407]

but given that the original game was designed around a 3 core CPU that had really weak multi threading, I could see this being the bottleneck here. (not even sure if 360 games actually made use of the multi threading...)

On the contrary. Strong multithreading performance was the reason the 360 and especially the PS3 managed to last so long in comparison to prior consoles.

yeah, I also think the CPU could be an issue.
the 360 had 3 cores, 6 threads. I bet that CPU also couldn't be fully used by games as the 360 did have a pretty advanced and feature rich OS that could handle background music, background downloads and party chat across all games and while switching titles etc.

something the PS3 for example never really could catch up to due to hardware constraints.

the IBM CPU cores were also not that great at multi threading, so who knows if the CPU was even used as a 6 thread CPU or simply as a straight 3 core CPU with SMT disabled.

so it's possible that the game only really uses 2 threads, maybe 3.

Apparently a small portion of 2nd and 3rd core were reserved for the OS, which is much better than the PS3s solution of reserving an ENTIRE SPE. The 360s OS is actually quite efficient for what it's capable of, reserving only 32MB and having more advanced features than PS3, which used a lot more memory.

And here's an article from Capcom explaining the kind of performance leap you could expect from multithreading. The jump from a relatively weak 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 to a capable (at the time) Pentium 4 EE 840 is pretty big.

 

[Black_Stride]

Edit: This has to hurt for Sega who recently did Colours and Generations remasters and were probably planning to this next.

Almost certainly this was not on their list of remasters.

 

[Edder1]

Almost certainly this was not on their list of remasters.

Nobody thought they were gonna remaster Colours until it happened.

 

[kevboard]

Nobody thought they were gonna remaster Colours until it happened.

I think Colours was always very likely to be remastered, as it has always been seen as one of, if not THE best boost era Sonic game.


____________________


So, I played Unleashed on the Steam Deck for a few hours now, and I now remember why the game was rightfully panned for its Werehog stages.

The obvious issue is the sub par combat system. it feels stiff, unresponsive, shallow and mismatched with the type of fight scnearios you get thrown into.

But then you notice that the werehog stages also get EVERY SINGLE fundamental platfomer element wrong.

the base movement controls are imprecise. Sonic has a weird turn radius. he has an annoying quirk where if you let go of the stick and he has already come to a full standstill, you still have to wait a second before pressing jump if you want to jump straight upwards, otherwise he will jump like 1-2 meters forward... like wtf.

There are no dot shadows/target shadows... I REPEAT... NO TARGET SHADOWS.

(target example in Mario 64)

not below Items/Rings, not below Enemies, and not below Sonic himself.
that is basically a cardinal sin of platformers. it makes it almost impossible to accurately judge distance relative to your character while you or your enemies are in the air.


then on top of these issues we need to add another one, which is absolutely awful automated camera pans and locked camera perspectives that AT NO POINT ever give you an advantage over what your default camera would give you, and always do in fact the exact opposite.
probably the worst locked cameras of any game I can think of right now, simply due to how much they destroy your depth perception and genral overview of your surroundings.


there are actually still people that think this game was wrongfully rated badly, or is wrongfully seen as that Sonic game that's 50% good and 50% awful...
but nah, these less than favourable opinions are absolutely valid

 

[Larxia]

I think Colours was always very likely to be remastered, as it has always been seen as one of, if not THE best boost era Sonic game.


____________________


So, I played Unleashed on the Steam Deck for a few hours now, and I now remember why the game was rightfully panned for its Werehog stages.

The obvious issue is the sub par combat system. it feels stiff, unresponsive, shallow and mismatched with the type of fight scnearios you get thrown into.

But then you notice that the werehog stages also get EVERY SINGLE fundamental platfomer elements wrong.

the base movement controls are imprecise. Sonic has a weird turn radius. he has an annoying quirk where if you let go of the stick and he has already come to a full standstill, you still have to wait a second before pressing jump if you want to jump straight upwards, otherwise he will jump like 1-2 meters forward... like wtf.

There are no dot shadows/target shadows... I REPEAT... NO TARGET SHADOWS.

(target example in Mario 64)

not below Items/Rings, not below Enemies, and not below Sonic himself.
that is basically a cardinal sin of platformers. it makes it almost impossible to accurately judge distance relative to your character while you or your enemies are in the air.


then on top of these issues we need to add another one, which is absolutely awful automated camera pans and locked camera perspectives that AT NO POINT ever give you an advantage over what your default camera would give you, and always do in fact the exact opposite.
probably the worst locked cameras of any game I can think of right now, simply due to how much they destroy your depth perception and genral overview of your surroundings.


there are actually still people that think this game was wrongfully rated badly, or is wrongfully seen as that Sonic game that's 50% good and 50% awful...
but nah, these less than favourable opinions are absolutely valid

I don't find the werehog controls in combat THAT bad, I think it controls decently, the problem is that these levels are far too long compared to the sonic levels. If there was much less combats and if the levels were at least half shorter, it would have been tolerable... but in the current state, they are pretty tedious, for sure. The game would have been better without the werehog levels.

The sonic parts however, they are really good. The levels are great and I even like the feeling of adventure, going to different countries, with the different hub levels etc... The dlc missions are pretty challening too, but fun (so far).
If we only talk about the sonic content and not werehog, I think this might actually be my favorite 3D sonic maybe, because adventure 1 and 2 didn't age that well.

 

[OGM_Madness]

Is there any news on other decompilation projects going on? One game I’d like to see ported to PC is that Naruto exclusive game for Xbox 360 developed by Ubisoft. Naruto: Rise of a Ninja

Seems like the perfect game for this kind of project.

 

[DanielG165]

Unleashed at 4K/60 without needing a NASA computer to achieve such a goal is incredible. Xenia made this game so unbelievably heavy, so being able to sit here and play through this without dropping a single frame is nice. This is honestly the first time I’ve played Unleashed proper at 60 fps, as I’d never gotten around to installing it on my Series X, and the Unleashed Project isn’t the full fat experience, despite being an incredibly good representation of the day stages.

Stuff like this is why I’m a PC-gamer first lol.

 

[RedC]

 

[Larxia]

Is there any news on other decompilation projects going on? One game I’d like to see ported to PC is that Naruto exclusive game for Xbox 360 developed by Ubisoft. Naruto: Rise of a Ninja

Seems like the perfect game for this kind of project.

I would love to see more 360 games ported too, I looked around but I haven't seen any mention of other projects. I'm curious if there is a place like a discord server or something about this, where we can see what's attempted / looked at.

I played Rise of a ninja on Xenia 2 or 3 years ago, because I always heard good things about it, but I was very disappointed. I found it very tedious to play through, and the combats were really not good. I find the storm games a lot better. It's nice that there is 3D free roaming, but even for this I think I still prefer Storm 1, even if there aren't as many things to do.

I personally would love to see Tony Hawk's Project 8 and SSX ported to PC with this. Fable 2 would also be pretty cool. There really are quite many games that never got ported to PC which could benefit from this. The first "The Darkness" too (with mouse and keyboard would be great), Eternal Sonata, EA Skate etc... Or maybe even some games which received really bad PC ports, maybe they would somehow be better with this method lol.

 

[YCoCg]

Most other projects might be staying quiet for now, just like how this popped up when it was finished, no point in announcing you're doing such and such port and being slapped with a DMCA or C&D.

 

[RedC]

I liked Digital Foundry's suggestion for Project Gotham Racing 3 and 4.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Watching it now

Really cool stuffs

God some peoples are brilliant

Now I want every 360 exlusive games on PC

Off the top of my head, I would kill for

Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Ninja Gaiden 2
Project Gotham Racing 3 & 4
Gears of war 2 & 3
Fable II
Crackdown
Bank-Kazooie
Ace Combat 6 Fires of liberation (why was this exclusive?)

 

[DeVeAn]

Been playing this on steam deck. This works so well. This runs better than some current native PC ports, wild. Almost runs a perfect 60fps on SD.

This game was always good. Biggest issue was forcing heavy grind for exp mainly for the were-hog stages. Game really holds up well.

 

[Spukc]

please fucking do BLUR

i beg of you
not the shit pc port

 

[SnapShot]

dunkey

 

[keefged4]

The Sonic stages are some of the best in the entire series imo. The werehog ones are still absolutely awful to this day. Waiting on mods to remove them.

 

[SomeGit]

I'm not ready to put on my Sonic Unleashed gameplay apologist hat, Ill keep those spicy opinions to myself, the game is almost 20 years old so why bother on that, anyone can play it and judge it for themselfes.

But I'll put on my less spicy "Sonic Unleashed was visually gourgeous apologist hat", this video and also the Unleashed bit on the Xbox BC video that John made, the biggest chunk might I add, puts a tear in my eye. The original take DF (https://www.eurogamer.net/xbox-360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-18-article?page=3) had on Sonic Unleashed completely trashed the game's visual, ignoring any kind of analysis past the resolution number and the wrongfully info about both versions being uncapped (only the PS3 version is). Even the screenshots were taken very early in the game, without any follow up. It's shame too because there are some interesting changes between the PS3 and Xbox versions, and Sonic Team's tech talk about the engine at GDC 2009 was very interesting.

Oh well, it's nice that finally after 17 years even publications that dismissed it at the time of release walking back their irrational need to call everything Sonic Team touches as crap, even if you hate the gameplay, the game still holds up really really well today.

EDIT: Oh forgot, about the GDC 2009 talk. Thankfully the warriors didn't take this one at the time.

Spoiler: Images

 

[alphachino]

please fucking do BLUR

i beg of you
not the shit pc port

huh? what's wrong with the pc port?

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I'm not ready to put on my Sonic Unleashed gameplay apologist hat, Ill keep those spicy opinions to myself, the game is almost 20 years old so why bother on that, anyone can play it and judge it for themselfes.

But I'll put on my less spicy "Sonic Unleashed was visually gourgeous apologist hat", this video and also the Unleashed bit on the Xbox BC video that John made, the biggest chunk might I add, puts a tear in my eye. The original take DF (https://www.eurogamer.net/xbox-360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-18-article?page=3) had on Sonic Unleashed completely trashed the game's visual, ignoring any kind of analysis past the resolution number and the wrongfully info about both versions being uncapped (only the PS3 version is). Even the screenshots were taken very early in the game, without any follow up. It's shame too because there are some interesting changes between the PS3 and Xbox versions, and Sonic Team's tech talk about the engine at GDC 2009 was very interesting.

Oh well, it's nice that finally after 17 years even publications that dismissed it at the time of release walking back their irrational need to call everything Sonic Team touches as crap, even if you hate the gameplay, the game still holds up really really well today.

EDIT: Oh forgot, about the GDC 2009 talk. Thankfully the warriors didn't take this one at the time.

Spoiler: Images

The fact that Sonic Team was able to make this game after the disaster that was Sonic 06 is nothing short of amazing. They absolutely cooked with the tech used in this game. The motion blur here is still better than any other Sonic game; speed lines need to die.

 

[Larxia]

The Sonic stages are some of the best in the entire series imo. The werehog ones are still absolutely awful to this day. Waiting on mods to remove them.

I beat the game yesterday, I didn't play it since the release year on ps3. If we only talk about the day stages, I think it's my favorite 3D Sonic. It's a LOT more technical than generations and other games that came after it, there really is a lot of challenge and precision required if you want S on some of those stages, and the DLCs are quite brutal (but fun).
I agree with you though, the werehog... I really couldn't stand it anymore after a bit. It would have been fine if it was juste a few scenes here and there, but the levels are really too long.

The last part of the game, from Eggman Land until the end with every bosses inbetween, is pretty bad sadly, even the super sonic stage is bad.
They really did something great with the day stages, and I also really liked this feeling of adventure, travelling around the world and seeing different locations, but stuff outside of that is not so great, which is a shame because the day stages are REALLY great.

Still a very worth playing game in my opinion, it's super fun and it looks amazing, but you have to know you will be forced to play through rough scenes.

 

[SomeGit]

The fact that Sonic Team was able to make this game after the disaster that was Sonic 06 is nothing short of amazing. They absolutely cooked with the tech used in this game. The motion blur here is still better than any other Sonic game; speed lines need to die.

I blame Lost World

 

[KyoZz]

This is my wishlist, having native PC version of those would be insane:

Dante's Inferno
Fable II
Crackdown

 

[CamHostage]

Is there any news on other decompilation projects going on?

Unfortunately, the static recompilation promise comes with a lot of process that still needs to be worked out, even with the app to help with the underlying C++ conversion.

It's been a year and yet no other game has been released from Wiseguy's N64Recomp AFAIK. (Wiseguy has a bunch of WIP decompilation projects on GITHUB and there are a number of active N64 decompilation projects not using this tool, but I have not seen any actual progress using N64Recomp as the starter, has anyone else?) And even though this Sonic project has garnered headlines, I haven't seen a huge crowd shouting "Dibs!" on who will work on which XBox 360 port.

Not that it won't happen, I think these two projects are phenomenal applications for the game "preservation" community, but the idea that the recompilation revolution would allow all your N64 or 360 or whathaveyou games to be ported to PC with an app skids out on the reality of the total task.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Unfortunately, the static recompilation promise comes with a lot of process that still needs to be worked out, even with the app to help with the underlying C++ conversion.

It's been a year and yet no other game has been released from Wiseguy's N64Recomp AFAIK. (Wiseguy has a bunch of WIP decompilation projects on GITHUB and there are a number of active N64 decompilation projects not using this tool, but I have not seen any actual progress using N64Recomp as the starter, has anyone else?) And even though this Sonic project has garnered headlines, I haven't seen a huge crowd shouting "Dibs!" on who will work on which XBox 360 port.

Not that it won't happen, I think these two projects are phenomenal applications for the game "preservation" community, but the idea that the recompilation revolution would allow all your N64 or 360 or whathaveyou games to be ported to PC with an app skids out on the reality of the total task.

The next 360 decomp will have to come from a group of hardcore fans, just like this one. Sonic 06 already has a decent PC port, and Gererations has been ported to PC twice.

So I think the next one will be Dark Souls 1, becasue the Prepare to Die version is no longer available on PC, and the original, unpatched version is 360 and PS3 only. Also Souls fans are about as autistic as Sonic fans.

 

[keefged4]

I beat the game yesterday, I didn't play it since the release year on ps3. If we only talk about the day stages, I think it's my favorite 3D Sonic. It's a LOT more technical than generations and other games that came after it, there really is a lot of challenge and precision required if you want S on some of those stages, and the DLCs are quite brutal (but fun).
I agree with you though, the werehog... I really couldn't stand it anymore after a bit. It would have been fine if it was juste a few scenes here and there, but the levels are really too long.

The last part of the game, from Eggman Land until the end with every bosses inbetween, is pretty bad sadly, even the super sonic stage is bad.
They really did something great with the day stages, and I also really liked this feeling of adventure, travelling around the world and seeing different locations, but stuff outside of that is not so great, which is a shame because the day stages are REALLY great.

Still a very worth playing game in my opinion, it's super fun and it looks amazing, but you have to know you will be forced to play through rough scenes.

Yup, just literally finished it there and 100% agree. Werehog stages, Eggmanland and the whole last boss section are fucking downright awful and bring down an otherwise excellent sonic game into mid territory.

Despite this I still love unleashed, and am extremely happy I've now played through it at 4k 120. But never again.

 

[Insolent]

I need 120 fps and 21:9 patch for this (basically for any game)

 

[BeardSpike]

Watching it now

Really cool stuffs

God some peoples are brilliant

Now I want every 360 exlusive games on PC

Off the top of my head, I would kill for

Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Ninja Gaiden 2
Project Gotham Racing 3 & 4
Gears of war 2 & 3
Fable II
Crackdown
Bank-Kazooie
Ace Combat 6 Fires of liberation (why was this exclusive?)

This is my wishlist, having native PC version of those would be insane:

Dante's Inferno
Fable II
Crackdown

GitHub - Fable2Recomp/Fable2Recomp: A Fable 2 Recomp

A Fable 2 Recomp. Contribute to Fable2Recomp/Fable2Recomp development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[alphachino]

I need 120 fps and 21:9 patch for this (basically for any game)

patch? this port has it natively already

 

[digital_ghost]

Sonic looks purdy

I am a closet furry. Don't you judge me.

 

[Insolent]

patch? this port has it natively already

That's good to hear, respect to dev
Downloading

 

[Soodanim]

huh? what's wrong with the pc port?

According to PCGW, quite a bit considering it's not the oldest game out there.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Blur

 

[MMaRsu]

GitHub - Fable2Recomp/Fable2Recomp: A Fable 2 Recomp

A Fable 2 Recomp. Contribute to Fable2Recomp/Fable2Recomp development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Insolent]

Daaamn
Game looks and feels so good with 4k and x8 msaa, love the additional settings
native 120 fps and 21:9
this dev is insane (or others just dumb?)

 

[Insolent]

Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Ninja Gaiden 2
Project Gotham Racing 3 & 4
Gears of war 2 & 3
Fable II
Crackdown
Bank-Kazooie
Ace Combat 6 Fires of liberation (why was this exclusive?)

we need it!!

 

[El Muerto]

List of some decomp projects https://decomp.dev/ . Mostly GC games and quite a few are almost decompiled. Not seeing any Xbox games in github yet. I'm defintely keeping an eye open for projects as I really want Tenchu-Z.

 

[poppabk]

According to PCGW, quite a bit considering it's not the oldest game out there.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Blur

Most of those seem like they would also be an issue in the Xbox version.

 

[alphachino]

According to PCGW, quite a bit considering it's not the oldest game out there.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Blur

i don't see anything major there. i've about 30 hours into the pc port recently across windows and steam deck and there were no issues. i even went online with it via AMAX EMU.

I think it's dumb calling for a de/recomp of a game for which a pc port exists already. mods are part and parcel of the pc experience, plus a little leg work like minor fixes, drivers or additional supporting software.

spending months to years re/decomping Blur would be a gross waste of time imo

 

[Insolent]

Btw we need JET SET RADIO FUTURE

 

[Insolent]

I agree with you though, the werehog... I really couldn't stand it anymore after a bit. It would have been fine if it was juste a few scenes here and there, but the levels are really too long.

The last part of the game, from Eggman Land until the end with every bosses inbetween, is pretty bad sadly, even the super sonic stage is bad.

Confirming
Werehog stage are horrible, i really hated this game when played it on x360 because of that

For people who want to try and enjoy the game - best way is to download full save file so you can select stages and skip werehog bullshit

True 100% PC Recomp & Xenia Save [Sonic Unleashed (X360/PS3)] [Mods]

A Sonic Unleashed (X360/PS3) (SUHD) Mod in the Save Files category, submitted by es9

gamebanana.com

I am not a fan of boost gameplay. but it's good here compare to most modern sonic games (which is much worse)

 

[SnapShot]

How did we go from awesome stylish fast paced combat to whatever the heck frontiers is

 

[kevboard]

Btw we need JET SET RADIO FUTURE

this!

while Bomb Rush Cyberfunk is a great alternative on modern hardware, having a native PC version of JSRF would be a dream!

 

[kevboard]

i don't see anything major there

yeah, unless there's something majorly wrong with it that isn't immediately obvious, I don't get it.

I understand that having a 60fps lock on PC is often meat with ridicule, and it is kinda stupid that it is locked... but if a PC mod can't fix it then a 360 decomp won't either... and if a PC mod can fix it, then why need a 360 decomp?

and that 60fps lock is the only real issue I can make out from that wiki page, and that apparently it only displays keyboard prompts, which I guess can be annoying at first until you learned all the buttons

 

[Hudo]

There is no group more fanatical than Sonic fans.

 

[Thebonehead]

Sonic looks purdy

I am a closet furry. Don't you judge me.

Well I did and the verdicts in.

I've also reported your post in the hope the mods see your filthy furry proclivities and hope you get an appropriate tag.

Edit. Thank you mods. Put a big smile on my face after a difficult week. The tag he deserves.

 

[Thebonehead]

There is no group more fanatical than Sonic fans.

Never been in a Bloodborne thread I see?

 

[Hudo]

Never been in a Bloodborne thread I see?

Fair enough

 

[cireza]

this dev is insane

True. The job done by Sonic Team back then was simply unbelievable. Sonic visuals haven't evolved much since then, a true testimony of how good the Hedgehog Engine already was on the 360.