IrishNinja
Member
^id love to say that too...not too obscure, but for me, PCE looks glorious over RGB, that color palette really shines and the upscaled sprites can look so great too
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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baphomet
Member
They're definitely out there. Jaguar actually supports rgb out of the box. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't own a Jaguar.
I think the only other console that hasn't really been mentioned in here that its even possible to get rgb out of is the 3do, and its a crazy complicated mod.
IrishNinja
Member
^if anyone's ever insterested, the same guy i bought said RGB modded duo-R off of sells modded 3DO's as well
Shadow Hog
Member
Clearly we need to see gloriously upscaled Plumbers Don't Wear Ties
baphomet
Member
And as far as I know he's one of the few people in the world who do the mod. It's crazy how few of them there are. Well, I guess when you consider how shit the majority of the games are its not that crazy, lol.
Honestly the only game that I would think would really benefit from it is ssf2t. I'd think low bit rate fmv would look better with composite, and that's the majority of the 3do's games.
IrishNinja
Member
haha, ya'll are brutal on the 3DO's library of classics! there was...
...didn't Kenji Eno have a puzzle game there or something? that's gotta be the secret best 3DO game /mangod
...didn't Kenji Eno have a puzzle game there or something? that's gotta be the secret best 3DO game /mangod
s_mirage
Member
Shadow Hog's kindly already posted shots but here's a blending example from me. These are emulator shots but the effect is the same.
Star Cruiser:
RGB Looks like this:
Composite blends those adjacent stripes into an in between colour like this:
As in this example, some graphics were deliberately created to exploit this effect in order to get more colours out of a limited palette. It was also used to fake transparency like in the Sonic waterfall shot. Setting H_SCALE to maximum on the Framemeister pretty accurately simulates the effect.
EDIT:Gah, I forgot to turn filtering off. On real hardware the RGB output would actually look more harsh because of that.
IrishNinja
Member
that's pretty neat...between those & the pitfall 2 shots i think i got it now. would there be downsides to maxing the h_scale setting on games not employing that effect?
sixteen-bit
Member
3DO's video output is blurry as hell (low res source blown up to 480i) and apparently RGB mod does not fix that.
IrishNinja
Member
...can't be worse with some better colors though, yeah?
s_mirage
Member
Yeah, it looks pretty blurry and unfortunately it's an all or nothing deal. Although all high values still blur things, this blending effect doesn't work at any H_SCALER value below max. Turning on scanlines kind of helps make things look a bit shaper but to be honest I'd only use it on games where it's obvious that a lot of the graphics were designed to take advantage of this effect.
IrishNinja
Member
ah, hence all the trail & error with the settings ive read on the SHMUPs forum...there's still so many options ive barely messed with, this thing is awesome. i remember how cool it was when i figured out those SDTV bubble border things were a great way to hide oversan on some genesis titles.
speaking of, it took a while to get to them (that's what i get for shipping on the cheap...) but customer service at solaris just confirmed yesterday or so that they'd received my dead remote & were gonna send in for a replacement with Micomsoft & said they should have one for me in about a week! my customer service experience with them has been great overall, just wanted to recommend them as an option since bocodragon put me onto them for the price & cheap d-terminal to component adapter.
speaking of, it took a while to get to them (that's what i get for shipping on the cheap...) but customer service at solaris just confirmed yesterday or so that they'd received my dead remote & were gonna send in for a replacement with Micomsoft & said they should have one for me in about a week! my customer service experience with them has been great overall, just wanted to recommend them as an option since bocodragon put me onto them for the price & cheap d-terminal to component adapter.
also i had a bitch of a time with not getting audio out on some channels for reasons i couldn't sort, then messing with the other other day realized it was an HDMI or something else audio setting that of course varied with the input i was using...the worst part of this simple fix is that i swear ive run into it at least 2x before and always forgotten which setting fixed it cause i was drunk, haha
CoachKevin
Member
Super famicom scarf cable arrived from amazon Japan today. When I hook it up to the mini the picture is super dark. What am I doing worng?
before I invest in the XRGB, I am just going to hook the composite inputs up to my Denon X2000 and see how that upscales. Can currently do this with
Genesis
Master System
Saturn
TG-16
SNES
N64
NES
Will probably not do this with Dreamcast.. would rather just find a reasonable VGA box for that one.
Sadly I have no friggin idea where my GCUBE component cables are.
Genesis
Master System
Saturn
TG-16
SNES
N64
NES
Will probably not do this with Dreamcast.. would rather just find a reasonable VGA box for that one.
Sadly I have no friggin idea where my GCUBE component cables are.
CoachKevin
Member
Any idea what is up with this guys? Sorry for the repost, just need to send back to amazon before I leave japan if it is the cable or the Framemeister.
Shadow Hog
Member
I can't give you a specific reason why it's dark, since I am inexperienced in this particular venue. However, if you don't mind me asking, are you sure it's European SCART, or is it JP21? They look identical, but the wiring is completely different. The adapter the Mini comes with takes in JP21 natively, but if you're used to using European SCART, and were using an adapter wired to take that, but bought a JP21 cable from Japan and expected it to be wired up the same way, then that might cause some issues.
Like I said, totally guessing here.
Like I said, totally guessing here.
What region is the console? I seem to remember that a Japanese RGB cable, when hooked up to a US SNES, will result in a darker image due to missing capacitors in the cable connector.
Edit: Link
CoachKevin
Member
well, i got the XRGB today!!
first this is...
i don't even know what to set on it for optimal settings.
so far, i plan to use the N64 with it but i don't know what i should fiddle with to improve the image (or even what half of the options do. i'm used to the basic color settings from TVs but this thing has a ton of other stuff i had never seen before)
it would be nice to see what other people with N64s here have set on theirs for comparison to at least know where i can start.
first this is...
i don't even know what to set on it for optimal settings.
so far, i plan to use the N64 with it but i don't know what i should fiddle with to improve the image (or even what half of the options do. i'm used to the basic color settings from TVs but this thing has a ton of other stuff i had never seen before)
it would be nice to see what other people with N64s here have set on theirs for comparison to at least know where i can start.
s_mirage
Member
Oh yeah, Trip'd. I really need to pick that one up sometime. He also did Oyaji Hunter Mahjong which looks like an interesting spin on the genre.
i went ahead and fiddled with my entertainment center to see what would be the best way to hook up the XRGB.
first, the bad things: connecting the XRGB between the TV and receiver was a bust. this setup pretty much killed how my whole setup worked since Wii and GC signals converted from the receiver and then fed to the XRGB didn't end up working out. also, my capture card started displaying "HDCP" and none of the inputs would shop up on it.
i scratched this and relocated the XRGB to one of the HDMI inputs of the receiver (with a signal splitter inbetween for the capture card)
now here comes the good part: putting the XRGB in one of the HDMI inputs of the receiver worked well. the receiver passes the signal to the TV without any processing and the TV receives it at native resolution (if i have everything right about it. the plasma i have has a 720p panel and i have all my stuff set to 720p). i plugged the N64 to it with the S-video cable and it works pretty good. the game feels like how it felt way back when i had a CRT. here's a video i recorded to test how it would look in youtube.
and then there's the weird part: since the signal splitter i had was to split the Wii U's HDMI signal to the capture card, the Wii U ended up disconnected. i hooked it up to the XRGB since anything hooked up to it passes through the splitter that goes to the capture card and that lets me capture both consoles. what i'm not sure is if plugging the Wii U like this is recommended at all since i couldn't find any info on using a Wii U with an XRGB. i tried a Wii U game to see how it looked (NSMBU) and it looked about the same, but when i tried Wii mode, it looked weird. the black areas are too black and the white areas are too white. i fiddled with the brightness and gamma but i couldn't find a way to make it look like how it looked before. for this, i decided to order an HDMI selector so that the Wii U doesn't pass through the XRGB but it would be good if there was a way to solve this.
btw, where's a place where i can find a cheap component-to-d-terminal adapter? that's the only way i'll be able to try Wii or GC on the XRGB. oh, and before i forget, is it better to use those Wii HDMI comverters or just feed the signal with the D-terminal adapter to the XRGB?
first, the bad things: connecting the XRGB between the TV and receiver was a bust. this setup pretty much killed how my whole setup worked since Wii and GC signals converted from the receiver and then fed to the XRGB didn't end up working out. also, my capture card started displaying "HDCP" and none of the inputs would shop up on it.
i scratched this and relocated the XRGB to one of the HDMI inputs of the receiver (with a signal splitter inbetween for the capture card)
now here comes the good part: putting the XRGB in one of the HDMI inputs of the receiver worked well. the receiver passes the signal to the TV without any processing and the TV receives it at native resolution (if i have everything right about it. the plasma i have has a 720p panel and i have all my stuff set to 720p). i plugged the N64 to it with the S-video cable and it works pretty good. the game feels like how it felt way back when i had a CRT. here's a video i recorded to test how it would look in youtube.
and then there's the weird part: since the signal splitter i had was to split the Wii U's HDMI signal to the capture card, the Wii U ended up disconnected. i hooked it up to the XRGB since anything hooked up to it passes through the splitter that goes to the capture card and that lets me capture both consoles. what i'm not sure is if plugging the Wii U like this is recommended at all since i couldn't find any info on using a Wii U with an XRGB. i tried a Wii U game to see how it looked (NSMBU) and it looked about the same, but when i tried Wii mode, it looked weird. the black areas are too black and the white areas are too white. i fiddled with the brightness and gamma but i couldn't find a way to make it look like how it looked before. for this, i decided to order an HDMI selector so that the Wii U doesn't pass through the XRGB but it would be good if there was a way to solve this.
btw, where's a place where i can find a cheap component-to-d-terminal adapter? that's the only way i'll be able to try Wii or GC on the XRGB. oh, and before i forget, is it better to use those Wii HDMI comverters or just feed the signal with the D-terminal adapter to the XRGB?
Get the adapter at Solaris japan. Unless you are in tokyo or something and can just get it at a local shop. They are not cheap, either way. $15-20.
http://www.solarisjapan.com/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female/
I'd stay with Wii/D-Terminal/Adapter rather than the Wii HDMI thingie. Why introduce one more thing in your pipeline if you don't have to.
http://www.solarisjapan.com/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female/
I'd stay with Wii/D-Terminal/Adapter rather than the Wii HDMI thingie. Why introduce one more thing in your pipeline if you don't have to.
CoachKevin
Member
ANy idea what is up with the picture from my SFC via the RGB cable? Is it the cable or the Framemeister?
Japanese everything, Framemeister, RGB cable, and Super Famicom.
Japanese everything, Framemeister, RGB cable, and Super Famicom.
You just have to trial and error and knock out different scenarios.
Does the Super Fami work with composite?
Does it work with composite on the Mini?
Does the Super Fami work without the Mini?
Does the RGB port on the Mini work with other RGB systems?
Are the setting correct at the menu level on the Mini?
Open up the official Super Fami RGB cable and make sure all the leads are properly soldered still. Easy to open and compare to a pic/pinout on line.
Does the Super Fami work with composite?
Does it work with composite on the Mini?
Does the Super Fami work without the Mini?
Does the RGB port on the Mini work with other RGB systems?
Are the setting correct at the menu level on the Mini?
Open up the official Super Fami RGB cable and make sure all the leads are properly soldered still. Easy to open and compare to a pic/pinout on line.
If you use 720p mode with scanlines on the XRGB, does scaling that image up to 1080p by either your TV or other external scaler ruin the scanline effect? I'm sure this depends on the scaler, but what is your experience with this?
I'm wondering this as I have a 1080p native TV, and 720p would look like a small box if displayed 1:1.
CoachKevin
Member
Don't have another rgb cable/ssytem to test. What would need to be changed from the SFC working via composite?
Yes to everything else, haven't checked the pinout but it is a new cable from amazon. Think I should send it back?
i see. i went with this and ordered the adapter.
I just meant to make sure the Super Fami can at least output composite...and the ststem is not DoA. But, yeah, forgot that the system does not come with any AV cables so you probably don't have the RCA cable.
Honestly, your RGB cable is probably fine. But, I have had cables go out on me before.
Shadow Hog
Member
Something I was wondering. This Genesis Model 1 SCART cable vs. this SCART cable, Difference? Seems to have something to do with how it handles sync... I'm nowhere near ready to purchase RGB cables (no XRGB to plug 'em into), but the more I know in advance, the better.
Pure sync for a Genesis/MD reduces or removes jail bars and cleans up the image a little bit.
theSlacker
Member
Shouldn't need to pay $60 fucking dollars for it though. Know the one from that ebay seller that is always coming and going just cost me $20.
IrishNinja
Member
haha yup, again that's retro_console_accessories, don't know what she's got at the moment but i stand by her shit, especially for that price. she talked me out've raw sync for my setup too.
Mang, did you purchase your PCE from Doujindance? Do you get any noise or a buzzing sound coming from the speakers when like a title screen is being displayed on screen? I got my modded PCE a few years back from another seller and i'm not quite satisfied with it due to the reasons mentioned above. I'm thinking about going the Doujindance route!
Might only be a cable issue though..
IrishNinja
Member
i did indeed! but i was saying in the PCE thread, mine's not ready to go just yet...i get the "PLEASE SET DISC" error (hucards work perfect from both regions), still in the process of tightening this one resistor to get it working, hopefully this week. for what its worth dace has been really cool, even sent me a japanese minus screwdriver to help out (looks like i need a # 0 phillips head though)
IrishNinja
Member
hmm...i wanna say i'd recall that but ill turn them up & test for it tomorrow night, you mean the game's title and not the system's boot one right? cause the former gets skipped sometimes, especially during that few second window while the upscaler does its thing
theSlacker
Member
Only thing I've gone raw for is genesis. Didn't get a non raw to see if I could tell the difference though, but know I love how it looks so don't even care.
Nope, the scanline effect is not ruined provided you can disable overscan.
Shadow Hog
Member
I'm rather paranoid about them jailbars, though. They're really blatant on my S-Video mod. If I were to upgrade any console to RGB, it'd be the Genesis just to nix those damn things.
But, well, I'm not sure which sync I should be going for. IIRC most SCART switches look for composite sync?
baphomet
Member
That's a cable issue. If it usually happens when there's a majority white image on the screen.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-r8mBuQv6es
Thanks. Even though my TV doesn't support anything but 1080p without overscan, I have 2 external scalers (receiver and/or a dvdo edge) which can scale 720p to 1080p with minimal latency. I think I should be in good shape.
It's a pain to find a good working CRT screen. I picked up a PVM (2530) a couple of years ago, but it has pretty severe geometry issues amongst some other minor problems. The picture looks great otherwise, but if I can have a comparable picture on my plasma I'd be happy with that. The XRGB mini is high on the list now. I guess I'll have to see for myself how it compares to CRTs.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Hey guys, total noob to this stuff, hoping for some advice.
Is it worth getting the RGB mini to play classic games via Wii on? I don't have the space for a CRT TV and would like to run VC and emulated games with a decent image on a 23" HDTV.
I'm based in the UK, have a North American Wii connected via component cables. Would I need anything else outside of the RGB mini?
Is it worth getting the RGB mini to play classic games via Wii on? I don't have the space for a CRT TV and would like to run VC and emulated games with a decent image on a 23" HDTV.
I'm based in the UK, have a North American Wii connected via component cables. Would I need anything else outside of the RGB mini?
baphomet
Member
This should be common knowledge, but I just want to let everyone know. Don't buy a cheap scart switch. I got one and thought I'd be able to hook everything into and not have to switch out cables anymore. It's a 5 input switch. Every time I plug another scart cable in it the image degrades. Once I get all 5 in there sound is fucked and you can barely see the picture. Also something I noticed is even when I had my snes unplugged from power but still had the scart hooked up, when I would turn the genesis on, the power led would come on the snes. So it was sending power into the console via the multiout. No damage to anything, but be aware.
Oh god yes.
That is what I use my Mini for 90% of the time. Sure, I've got other systems, PCBs, etc all RGB that go into the Mini...but VC is perfect on it and gets most of my play. You can also play them back at 240p upscaled to 720p with scanlines. They look perfect.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It doesn't look identical to the original. But yes, very nice.
The Wii definitely outputs a dark image at 240P though, doesn't it?
Shadow Hog
Member
Yeah, I've heard bad things about some SCART swtiches. If they don't do crazy shit like that, turning your consoles on when they shouldn't be, then they frequently degrade the signal.
Apparently there's one by ShinyBow that's worth a look. It's a European device, but they'll ship it to the US... for $200, and you have to special order it, but they'll do it! And apparently, it's very much worth it, if the shmups forum impressions are anything to go by.
Apparently there's one by ShinyBow that's worth a look. It's a European device, but they'll ship it to the US... for $200, and you have to special order it, but they'll do it! And apparently, it's very much worth it, if the shmups forum impressions are anything to go by.
I don't think it is dark. Never had any of that type of issue with any of the systems on VC. I'd go to say I almost prefer the playback of VC on Wii more than the actual systems. Wii's image is just ever so slightly softer which helps alleviate the hard edge of the upscaler.. Of course it is not CRT soft but very pleasing.
s_mirage
Member
This isn't universally true, there are cheap switch boxes that do the job pretty much perfectly. For cheap boxes though I would guess that manual switchers with physical switches would likely be safer. My old Hama does the job perfectly and I haven't noticed any interference or power issues, and personally I think £140 (referring to the Shinybow) for a switch box is bordering on the obscene.
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