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WB Games Has Monolith's Nemesis System Under Lock Until 2036

Monolith's famed Nemesis System is locked under a Warner Bros. Games patent till 2036. Here are more details.

insider-gaming.com

Monolith Studios has shut down, and now fans wonder what will happen to its famed Nemesis System, which is locked under a Warner Bros. Games patent until 2036.

The Nemesis System was seemingly set to make its grand return with the now cancelled Wonder Woman game. The game’s cancellation came along with the shutdown of the following studios: Monolith Studios, Player First Games, and WB San Diego. Due to the sudden closure, the future of the Nemesis System has become uncertain, too, as the studio responsible for creating it no longer exists, and no other game developer will be able to utilise the system as Warner Bros Games holds its patent till 2036.

Spotted by VentureBeat (via The Gamer), the Nemesis System was patented by Warner Bros. Games in 2021, which barred other game developers from using the system in their games. The patent will remain locked under Warner Bros. Games until 2036 if the company continues paying its associated fees, even after Monolith Studios has been shut down. This means that the Nemesis system may not see the light of day again unless Warner Bros. Games decides to do something about it.

What is the Nemesis System?​

For those wondering, Monolith’s Nemesis System debuted with Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor and was also used in Shadow of War. The system allows enemy NPC characters, who are usually unforgettable, to have more personality. With the Nemesis system, the player’s actions would be fed into the enemies, and their reaction towards the player character would change according to the decision made in battles, providing a personalised story and fresh encounters to players according to their choices. Thanks to the system, each enemy feels like an evolving rival to the player.

What are your thoughts on the Nemesis System being locked under Warner Bros. Games till 2036? Let us know in the comments or on our community forum!

 

[Buggy Loop]

Patent on this was always mind blowing. Why

Almost meme level of Nintendo going after everyone for a character that jumps

 

[near]

Probably the worst publisher to own such an interesting patent.

 

[Icymanipulator]

It’s insane to me how they can even patent something like this. Seems like another company should easily be able to tweak it and be fine. Have no idea how they could defend something like this court.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don’t get why nemesis would even be patentable.

Just sounds like the enemies get some awareness about your character the more you fight it.

So if I play NHL and the AI adjusts to my game style, EA can patent the AI?

 

[cormack12]

Surely it's just hao they've done it. Another dev can program their 'version' of it surely

 

[ProtoByte]

Patent on this was always mind blowing. Why

Almost meme level of Nintendo going after everyone for a character that jumps

I don’t get why nemesis would even be patentable.

Just sounds like the enemies get some awareness about your character the more you fight it.

It’s insane to me how they can even patent something like this. Seems like another company should easily be able to tweak it and be fine. Have no idea how they could defend something like this court.

The patent contains 36 very specific claims that come out to a specific result. Jason Schreier just said this, so if you don't believe me, believe him: This patent thing is way overblown. You'd have to follow the steps down to the wire to get in WB's crosshairs; aspects of this stuff are seen in many games already (AC Odyssey and WD Legion for example); and patent or no patent, this is not something that easily replicable or of interest to most studios. A very specific combination of intent, time, money and expertise are required to get to the Nemesis system or Nemesis-lite. So much so that just 7 people leaving Monolith meant they couldn't get it to work for Wonder Woman.

 

[Gonzito]

For God's sake, who knows if I will even be alive by then. What a joke

 

[Chuck Berry]

So we'll never see it again. Got it.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Well if you get creative you can make something similar, like the mercenary system in AC games.

Still shouldn't be patented in the first place. Just because someone invents a cool mechanic doesn't mean they should just own it. Imagine a patent for a roguelike system or respawns.

 

[GymWolf]

WB can't fuck off soon enough.

 

[viveks86]

The patent contains 36 very specific claims that come out to a specific result. Jason Schreier just said this, so if you don't believe me, believe him: This patent thing is way overblown. You'd have to follow the steps down to the wire to get in WB's crosshairs; aspects of this stuff are seen in many games already (AC Odyssey and WD Legion for example); and patent or no patent, this is not something that easily replicable or of interest to most studios. A very specific combination of intent, time, money and expertise are required to get to the Nemesis system or Nemesis-lite. So much so that just 7 people leaving Monolith meant they couldn't get it to work for Wonder Woman.

Agreed. Like most patents, I’m sure it’s possible to work around it, if someone had the will. Just doesn’t seem to be on anyone’s radar to actually bother

 

[RedC]

Remember when Nintendo had the sanity system for video games patented that they used for Eternal Darkness?

US6935954B2 - Sanity system for video game - Google Patents

A video game and game system incorporating a game character's sanity level that is affected by occurrences in the game such as encountering a game creature or gruesome situation. A character's sanity level is modified by an amount determined based on a character reaction to the occurrence such...

patents.google.com

It's now expired.

However, plenty of other games have their versions of sanity systems.

Here's the nemesis system patent:

US20160279522A1 - Nemesis characters, nemesis forts, social vendettas and followers in computer games - Google Patents

Methods for managing non-player characters and power centers in a computer game are based on character hierarchies and individualized correspondences between each character's traits or rank and events that involve other non-player characters or objects. Players may share power centers, character...

patents.google.com

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

 

[Jesb]

There’s no way this would hold up in court

 

[Punished Miku]

Nemesis will look like crayon shit from a toddler compared to current AI capabilities if anyone wants to pursue that in a game. No one is waiting around because of this patent.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Hey Sony, trade Bungie for this system

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This is why the media is so untrustworthy.

Any company can copy the Nemesis system as long as they change it a miniscule amount. See: Krafton (PUBG) trying to sue Fortnite.

They go for clicks, not truth. Studios take ideas from other games all the time.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Monolith have just been shuttered anyway and it was really only implemented in their games wasn’t it?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I love this old space ship PC game called Operation: Inner Space. It has a nemesis system.
Ships you attack or help will remember you, come after you when they see you later, etc.
They don't move up in ranks though. It's a very simplistic but addicting game.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Never played the Monolith LOTR games. Is the system that interesting?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

As someone mentioned earlier, the nemesis system is a highly specific combination of existing systems to create something novel, which is why the patent was granted because it's was technically a new invention at the time; all those individual systems cannot be patented or copyrighted, so unless you're making an exact copy of the entire system, the patent is not infringed.

 

[jakinov]

Patents let you protect a solution to a problem, it does not protect the solving of that problem. Meaning you can in theory build a nemesis like system with the exact same inputs and outputs as long as the process is different enough.


People keep bringing up patenting jumping in a game. The solution has to be novel and non-obvious. Wanting your character to jump is a problem. Pressing a button to jump would likely be considered to obvious. You can more likely get patent for things like a camera that detects that you jumped IRL or wiggling a remote with specific sensors to trigger a jump. You don’t patent it so that nobody can jump in a game. You can build a nemesis system you just can’t build it the same way Monolith patented.

 

[RedC]

There’s no way this would hold up in court

It likely would if it was an exact copy of the system.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It was cool, but overrated. Didn't keep me playing all that much.

 

[damidu]

this is one overrated gimmick, it already got old by the second game
was the only novelty in an extremely repetitive ubi-clone game, i guess that's why people praised it like invention of toaster back then.

 

[RedC]

this is one overrated gimmick, it already got old by the second game

It could be iterated on, refined, improved, expanded, etc...

 

[Jesb]

It likely would if it was an exact copy of the system.

It obviously would be tweaked so it’s not exactly the same.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Good. Hell of a deal. Artful, even.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Man, fuck WB.

Never played the Monolith LOTR games. Is the system that interesting?

Honestly, it's one of the best (if not THE best) and coolest mechanics in the past decade IMO. It adds some really cool experiences throughout the game. The sad part is that even where it was used, it could be improved upon to be better and better. When you defeat enemies, they have the power to return with scars from your previous bout with them. They all have unique stats and weaknesses. They'll mention things regarding your last bout with them, build new buffs after being defeated, etc. It's just really cool and I'm sure the possibilities could practically be endless with procedural stuff these days.

I always hoped we'd see it in a Batman/Judge Dredd/Mad Max/Spawn/Robocop game. It would fit so perfectly.

 

[ozz ex machina]

this is one overrated gimmick, it already got old by the second game
was the only novelty in an extremely repetitive ubi-clone game, i guess that's why people praised it like invention of toaster back then.

I remember the first one making loads of peoples goty lists at the time. Was hilarious.

Game was another dogshit open world rpg with HORRENDOUS combat mechanics.

This patent stuff is irrelevant btw and absolutely not the reason its not in other games.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Honestly, it's one of the best (if not THE best) and coolest mechanics in the past decade IMO. It adds some really cool experiences throughout the game. The sad part is that even where it was used, it could be improved upon to be better and better.

I always hoped we'd see it in a Batman/Judge Dredd/Mad Max/Spawn/Robocop game. It would fit so perfectly.

Thanks man! I'll probably get them next time they are on sale.

 

[kiphalfton]

In order to infringe on this, other games would actually need to have gameplay first.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Thanks man! I'll probably get them next time they are on sale.

https://www.cdkeys.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-pc-cd-key - $2.79
https://www.cdkeys.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-definitive-edition-pc-steam-cd-key - $3.19

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Man, fuck WB.

This is a bogus story.

 

[TintoConCasera]

https://www.cdkeys.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-pc-cd-key - $2.79
https://www.cdkeys.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-definitive-edition-pc-steam-cd-key - $3.19

 

[ayokunaj]

Atleast give it to Rocksteady for use in their next batman’s game.

 

[Saber]

Good to know they won't be using their patent system in their games until that date expires and other companies start using similar concepts, which then will make them start caring about it.

Just imagine the power of Pokemon Company if they archieve doing that very unclear and anbiguous patent.

 

[ReyBrujo]

That pretty much sounds like the Karma Engine from Tommy Tallarico, waiting for him to sue them for USD 100m.

 

[MiguelItUp]

This is a bogus story.

The fact that they copyrighted it period is pretty gross, regardless if developers desire to make something similar but just different enough to skirt being sued. I mean, for all the love the system gets, you have to wonder why we haven't seen similar recreations of it. Especially when the Mordor series will basically held up by it. I mean, I thought those games were neat/fun, but without the Nemesis System, it'd certainly lose a lot of what makes it fun IMO.

 

[nowhat]

Patent on this was always mind blowing.

Just google "business method patent". Or don't, because you'll just find an endless list of lawyers trying to get you into it. Here's Wiki for the rescue:

Business method patent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...TL/DR, all kinds of bullshit can be patented in the US, Japan, and increasingly elsewhere as well. Do said patents constitute, you know, like... innovation? Fuck no. Coming back to the nemesis system, the implementation is covered by copyright, and that is explicit even, no need to register anywhere. But the mere concept of a nemesis system - well, it's now owned by WB, and fuck you for asking to do anything similar.

At one point you could have a minigame within a loading screen. Until you didn't. Guess why?

The Loading Screen Game Patent Finally Expires

In 1998, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued Patent 5,718,632, on a method for avoiding “unnecessary wastage of time” in video games. What’s transpired in the 17 years since then can best be described as an unnecessary wastage of time. Namco’s patent covers “auxiliary games” that a player...

www.eff.org

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The fact that they copyrighted it period is pretty gross, regardless if developers desire to make something similar but just different enough to skirt being sued. I mean, for all the love the system gets, you have to wonder why we haven't seen similar recreations of it. Especially when the Mordor series will basically held up by it. I mean, I thought those games were neat/fun, but without the Nemesis System, it'd certainly lose a lot of what makes it fun IMO.

PlayStation copyrwrote the dual stick controller. All these patent stories are clickbait slop used because an unsophisticated audience is willing to gobble it up.

The Nemesis system can be copied anytime another studio wants. Nothing has changed.

 

[kevboard]

the nemesis system is absolutely not even worth caring about.

it worked in this one game series, and even there it's not as amazing as some people seem to think it is.

 

[violence]

I can’t imagine what the industry would look if all game mechanics are patented.

I would patent walking forward.

 

[Arachnid]

the nemesis system is absolutely not even worth caring about.

it worked in this one game series, and even there it's not as amazing as some people seem to think it is.

Highly disagree

One of the few truly innovative systems I've seen in an action RPG this decade. It adds tons of depth to combat since you have to change your approach due to evolving strengths and exploit weaknesses. Better than 99% of the braindead systems and mobs in most games like Assassins Creed, Jedi Survivor, or the Spider-man games. The feeling of FINALLY finding a way to take out an orc that's resistant to all your usual methods of attack and repeatedly kills you is amazing. It's also cool as shit to see them fight each other and claw for improvements in hierarchy.

 

[semiconscious]

'the famed nemesis system'? because everyone's lining up to pay to use it? not saying it doesn't have potential, but, so far, anyway, the game development community doesn't seem to've had much interest in it at all...

 

[Ribi]

yes that is how patents work...

 

[Gorgon]

Looks interesting:

 

[The_Observer]

It was cool and new but IMO it’s really overrated, never understood the hype.

 

[Rat Rage]

Maybe something is wrong with how the patent office grants patents? Maybe they've not been as neutral as we all believe over the years? I think they need to be investigated.