StereoVsn
Gold Member
I think a lot of writers, actors, game designers, etc. went off the deep end of the woke pool after 2016-2017 and completely went batshit crazy 2020 and beyond.
The difference in quality is often tremendous.
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Canceled Wonder Woman game was ‘gorgeous and expansive’, says comic writer who consulted on it
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
The difference in quality is often tremendous.
poodaddy
Member
You're just advocating for censorship and calling it criticism. The writers complaining about fridging often do the same thing with male characters and noone bitches because it's somehow progressive when it's anything but a woman and if a woman is fridged then it's cringey, edge lord, or just downright sexist.
Her runs on Wonder Woman, Villains United/Secret Six, Birds of Prey, and Deadpool are solid, the hell you talking about?
Comparing her to Anita, Geezus fucking Christ. I’m sorry, (lays down a notebook), maybe you could elaborate what exactly women are “allowed” to criticize when it comes to writing? Because I’m pretty sure her pointing out that a GREEN LANTERN issue where Kyle Rayner finds a villain has murdered his girlfriend and stuffed her corpse in his fridge, you know, is kind of edgelord dogshit and that maybe constantly murdering off supporting characters, mostly women, in a shocking manner to “motivate” the hero was getting overused and highly cliched. Gwen Stacy was effective……and then every other writer tried to replicate it and it became stale fast.
She also supports fanservice (though for both female and male characters) and has plenty of runs that utilize it, so that makes your Anita comparison especially ridiculous.
Next you’ll be calling Amanda Conner a FemNazi or some shit.
Here's the thing, who cares whether it is wank writing, or edge lord, or sexist, or whatever it is, just let the writer create what they want to create. Gail Simone's woke writing isn't somehow made better by the fact that she's critically lauded; I mean just look at the kind of messes that get critical praise these days. You know as well as I do that any writing perceived as "progressive" will be arbitrarily reviewed much better for the mere virtue of that fact alone. She was absolutely crafting a woke mess of a story, it was absolutely going to be shit, the game would have absolutely failed as a result as the main demographic of folks buying games have made it abundantly clear that they have no more patience for that type of pandering shit, and WB absolutely made the right move by canceling it.
Oh, and Birds of Prey was trash.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Now I am sad. Concord and Veilguard alone delivered hours of quality entertainment.
Kings Field
Member
I
Doom85
Member
I never said that in my prior post, and the fact you instantly resorted to such blatant lies shows how garbage your mindset is.
Also, yes, continue to criticize “censorship” of certain writing……as you show support for WB cancelling a game due to it having writing that YOU don’t agree with it.
Definition of HYPOCRITE
a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion; a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Maybe to your mind. She's been good at best to me; and most of her stuff is a big fat miss. I'm hearing very bad things about her Uncanny X-Men.
Her runs on Wonder Woman, Villains United/Secret Six, Birds of Prey, and Deadpool are solid, the hell you talking about?
And unfortunately, I think the fact that her highest selling books were the Burnside Batgirl shit from over 11 years ago and happened to top out at <79k says something about her wider appeal.
Yeah, sure. The second most popular Green Lantern needs notes from Simone.
It's great to circumnavigate tired cliches, but it didn't stop at Rayner's girlfriend in the fridge, did it? It quickly spun out to a point where male heroes who have masculine traits are routinely made to look like jobbers and/or toxic losers for the sake of uplifting the female ones. The comic book space is male oriented, simple as. You don't see dudes waltzing into a romance novel publisher and yapping about how they would change the dozens of cliches that pop up there.
That's nice (although I think it's more true of her early career than her more recent stuff, and all feminists love homoeroticism, so moot point) but guess what? It goes way beyond fanservice. It's an overall attitude to human nature and how social dynamics should be.
The proof is in the pudding here. She opened the door for a slew of ideologues similar to and more zealous than her. These people have tanked the American comic industry. That she is one of the bigger names still working in comics today is an indictment.
I will not because I've not read much with her art. Power Girl isn't exactly the most relevant book DC has going.Next you’ll be calling Amanda Conner a FemNazi or some shit.
Rush2112
Member
they fired the Gen Xers, you know the ones who made those games, and hired dumbass millenials and GenZ.
Doom85
Member
-you flat out called her one of the worst things in comics. Now she’s capable of some good stuff. Where’s the consistency?
Sales hardly equate quality. You saying a cheeseburger from McDonald’s is better than one from Five Guys?
I’m sure Superman was selling much more than Batgirl of Burnisde despite the main Superman title being mostly shit during the New 52 era in most fans’ eyes. Whereas Batgirl (NOT Burnside, that was a different creative team) was generally considered good if unremarkable.
And some of what are now considered among easily the best New 52 titles were also low sellers: Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Demon Knights. Shocker: sometimes good stuff goes unnoticed for a while because plenty of casuals just want to grab the burger they know without actually spending effort into seeing if there are better options.
Also, funny you would use the New 52 as your example. See, a few months back I watched a several episode series from a podcast that did a deep dive history look at the New 52 era. They talked about how within the first year, a woman was mocked by some other attendees at a convention in a DC panel when she asked if there could be more female-led titles as only 8 of the initial New 52 titles had a female lead (and she was asking not as a reader herself, but because her daughter was reading the New 52 as a new fans and said daughter likes to cosplay and was hoping for more books to feature lead characters she could dress up as, so really speaks volumes on the sort of assholes who would mock such a request).
Well, see it’s funny, New 52 was no stranger to cancelling a ton of titles, and bringing in a ton of new titles to replace them (as they were pushing the concept of having 52 active titles always), and many of those got cancelled too. The three replacement titles that did last to the end of the New 52 (and two of them beyond it)? Batgirl of Burnside, Gotham Academy, and Harley Quinn. All of which were female-led titles.
Guess that woman wasn’t as much of a dumbass as those certain “fans” treated her, hmm?
-routinely? Yeah, I’ve seen little evidence this is that common. The male heroes are still frequently kicking ass, and still make up the majority of Marvel and DC titles’ focus.
-so now we’re blaming her for OTHER PEOPLE with more extreme ideologies? That’s fucking bonkers, come on.
Also, not a good indictment because Gail is NOT one of the biggest names in Marvel and DC currently, she kind of took a step back the last decade mostly and her X-men run is her first big project in a long while. Scott Snyder, Tom King, Mark Waid, Tom Taylor, Kelly Thompson, Jonathan Hickman, Jed Mackay, Al Ewing, etc. are the ones who are the biggest names in the big 2 right now. So your point suffers a lot there actually.
-your loss, everything she and her husband Jimmy Palmiotti have done together is pure fun
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
I wanted to address this: Gail has been writing comics for over 20 years and has A LOT of credits. You'd better be able to produce a handful of baseline good things with that many swings at the bat. It would be ridiculous to blanket literally everything she's written as irredeemably horrible.
But she's still misses the majority of the time in my view, and the overall impact that she's had has been a net negative that far outweighs even the impact on the specific books or characters she's written for.
As for the quality argument, I'm not going to get into the weeds with that shit. Comic "fans" and critics genuinely argue that a lot of tripe is good. Again, I think the proof is in the pudding. Either by way of using up all of the material up to 2010 or not having had the infrastructure to do it, Marvel and DC content on the mainstream market trying to adapt the era of comics Gail Simone was a key part of ushering in are universally floundering.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
So basically the villain was going to be Trump and WB saw it and was like um no and canned it
uh oh
poodaddy
Member
I don't support anything, I merely think they made the right decision from a fiscal perspective, and it's because the game wouldn't have sold well. That's not censorship by any stretch of the imagination. I respect her right to continue writing and putting out her trash, and I have the right to call it out as shit.I never said that in my prior post, and the fact you instantly resorted to such blatant lies shows how garbage your mindset is.
Also, yes, continue to criticize “censorship” of certain writing……as you show support for WB cancelling a game due to it having writing that YOU don’t agree with it.
Definition of HYPOCRITE
a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion; a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings… See the full definition
You're too emotional man lol, putting down imaginary notebooks and patting yourself on the back with gifs while literally no one agrees with you lol. Just comes off corny and overly defensive maynard, but I loves ya anyway. I'm gonna go get stoney balogna and have a drink now in your honor, I want you to take in my relaxation vicariously bro, we're gonna get through this together.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere maybe on GAF that they were assigned this project, I don't think it was something they took on voluntarily
poodaddy
Member
I believe this completely, just makes sense.
LordCBH
Member
uh oh
Reading that, I’m glad this game was cancelled.
Heart_Attack
Member
I hope we get someone to spill all the info on the plot/writing of the game. Based on the recent output by WB games (Suicide Squad, Mortal Kombat 1), I'm pretty sure the main writer had an agenda and it was destined to be a trainwreck. Monolith have no one to blame but themselves for their DEI hires.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
freemandos
Member
Warner Bros happened.
Lambogenie
Member
Doubt it.
Her runs on Wonder Woman, Villains United/Secret Six, Birds of Prey, and Deadpool are solid, the hell you talking about?
Comparing her to Anita, Geezus fucking Christ. I’m sorry, (lays down a notebook), maybe you could elaborate what exactly women are “allowed” to criticize when it comes to writing? Because I’m pretty sure her pointing out that a GREEN LANTERN issue where Kyle Rayner finds a villain has murdered his girlfriend and stuffed her corpse in his fridge, you know, is kind of edgelord dogshit and that maybe constantly murdering off supporting characters, mostly women, in a shocking manner to “motivate” the hero was getting overused and highly cliched. Gwen Stacy was effective……and then every other writer tried to replicate it and it became stale fast.
She also supports fanservice (though for both female and male characters) and has plenty of runs that utilize it, so that makes your Anita comparison especially ridiculous.
Next you’ll be calling Amanda Conner a FemNazi or some shit.
She’s a woman who’s not in the kitchen and doesn’t have a runway model body, so what did you expect from this place?
Life Diff
Member
I read her run on batgirl to say it was mid is an understatement
SRTtoZ
Member
I don't understand how a studio like that gets shut down. Shadow of Mordor came out of NOWHERE and was a mega hit, no? I mean it was one of the games that carried the PS4/Xbox One launch with how good it was. Forget about the Nemesis system and all that shit, the game was good fun and it was tied to LORD OF THE RINGS. It also made Celebrimbor way cooler than the new show Rings of Power ever did. That's how Celebrimbor should have been made, not the old man that Amazon decided to use. Then of course Shadow of War which was hyped as hell for sure and then it seemed to be good but I know there was some sort of loot box disaster where you couldn't progress in the game unless you got some really good loot box drops and the end game to get the 'real ending' was such a GRIND. I know they fixed it eventually but I think the stain was already there. Still though, I think it sold well enough, no? I guess all it takes is ONE game where you need to reboot it after 2-3 years of work and bam, your entire studio goes up in flames. Damn I hope someone else revives them b/c they are a great studio. I'm talking Alien vs Predator 2!!! That game is one of the games that got me into PC gaming and it's still a joy to play to this day. I mean just look at the games they made, some which I never played but DEFINITELY heard of and are cult classics like F.E.A.R, Matrix Online, Condemned, Gotham City Imposters, and of course the Middle Earth games. Such a shame.
Matt_Fox
Member
The publisher will of course begin with a financial forecast for the game and a budget to get it to market. The difference between the two is the predicted profit, but neither of those two things are fixed.
In the case of this game the financial forecast doubtless drooped (the movie Wonder Woman 1984 was a very costly flop, and Superhero fatigue has set in across all media which would show up in focus testing), whilst the budget appears to have ballooned through "a reboot in 2024". Quite simply the game was on course to lose money, and the question became 'how much goddamn money are we going to lose?', so they cut their losses.
Clearly some bad management and creative decisions were made because of the necessity for a reboot but it's a sad state of affairs - can you imagine what it would be like to work on a game for five years that no one will ever play?
Dr Cowley
Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What's going on with that captain america game?
Pandawan
Member
I just don't get it why so many developers just can't finish their projects for so many years these days.
-Monolith hasn't released anything since 2017 and now beign is closed.
-Quantic Dream is almost the same.
-Metro developers (4A) haven't released anything in 6 years since Metro Exodus (recent small VR game Metro was not from 4A)
-The new Tomb Raider game also seems to be in forever development
-There are many more cases like this. These are just examples I remembered
Sony studios like Days Gone devs and Naughty Dog, we know why (they worked on the cancelled GAAS)
Don't tell me how technology is so advanced now that it's impossible to make games. People who know what they're doing release their games constantly, Kojima made Death Stranding in 3.5 years (with modern technologies, good graphics, innovative gameplay and f-ing holywood actors) and now he's making 3 games in a row, while using really experimental technologies in one of them and the other is done right in time an is releasing this year.
Is this a huge scale of games or what, that breaks the development? If so, why the F are they still sticking with these huge open worlds with 40+ hours of gameplay if they just can't finish games like these with their capabilities.
Or there is just some creative crisis among the management of these studios and for years they can't choose the direction in which their game will develop, as was the case with Anthem.
Or it is just the actualy developers these days are so entitled, lazy, incompetent and motivated by solely money and politics (not by passion for games), so they just can't make games anymore.
-Monolith hasn't released anything since 2017 and now beign is closed.
-Quantic Dream is almost the same.
-Metro developers (4A) haven't released anything in 6 years since Metro Exodus (recent small VR game Metro was not from 4A)
-The new Tomb Raider game also seems to be in forever development
-There are many more cases like this. These are just examples I remembered
Sony studios like Days Gone devs and Naughty Dog, we know why (they worked on the cancelled GAAS)
Don't tell me how technology is so advanced now that it's impossible to make games. People who know what they're doing release their games constantly, Kojima made Death Stranding in 3.5 years (with modern technologies, good graphics, innovative gameplay and f-ing holywood actors) and now he's making 3 games in a row, while using really experimental technologies in one of them and the other is done right in time an is releasing this year.
Is this a huge scale of games or what, that breaks the development? If so, why the F are they still sticking with these huge open worlds with 40+ hours of gameplay if they just can't finish games like these with their capabilities.
Or there is just some creative crisis among the management of these studios and for years they can't choose the direction in which their game will develop, as was the case with Anthem.
Or it is just the actualy developers these days are so entitled, lazy, incompetent and motivated by solely money and politics (not by passion for games), so they just can't make games anymore.
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CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
The more that comes out about this game the more it sounds like it was a mercy killing.
Interfectum
Member
FeralEcho
Member
More like Wonder Wamen.
Putonahappyface
Member
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
"This will be our best album ever and a return to the roots"
-Every guy in a washed up band nobody cares about
-Every guy in a washed up band nobody cares about
Alebrije
Member
This is why a lot of developers fail, videogames are not for this. You dont see Miyamoto saying "this new Mario has a narrative tha will help people on these difficult times". Or games from Capcom, Konami, etc.
uh oh
Videogames are for fun..not to create narrarives...
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GooseMan69
Member
uh oh
The world definitely does not need any more capeshit slop.
The Mad Draklor
Member
The people who made Dustborn basically said the same thing and we all know how the market reacted to it.
uh oh
Oh, and taxpayer money was used to fund that game, too.
GymWolf
Member
It's gonna end up like a glorified playable tech demo in the same vein of hb2 if they want to maintain that graphical fidelity.
King Jaffe Joffer
Neo Member
That would explain why I was confused by the comments about her. I cut out from DC (then in comics in general a few years later) around 2010, and I remember enjoying her run on Bird of Prey (though not as much as Dixon's) and Secret Six was fun. No clue how she is currently, and she could be more political now. Back in the day people also didn't have so many platforms to just ramble on about things, so you'd just read a comic and have fun with it. Not so much anymore it seems.