Support NeoGAF

[Itchy Tickles]

Xbox One and everything involved with it. Watching E3 one year, and it felt like they spent most of the time talking about what the Xbox can do and very little of it was about gaming. It was TV, NFL, Kinect, Music, Social Media, etc. The price was quite hefty, and the design itself looked like a first run of a VCR.

The rumoured DRM and potential to block reselling games, sharing games with friends, and always online, etc

The attitude of the company. It was brutally ego driven and completely missed the mark. Don Mattricks attitude and responses were kinda the start of big companies admitting publicly they either hate us or think we are stupid little rats that will do what we are told or both.
They finally exposed themselves and in return, people voted with their wallets. Plus the Sony E3 press conference took a couple of minutes that ripped the piss outta Xbox and the crowd and media loved it.

Xbox saw Sonys PS3 nightmare beginnings and thought they couldn't possibly be as bad. They got it to the point that the Xbox brand has never gotten close to where it once was.

 

[PJX]

All of the above. My console preference was Xbox but they've killed the brand for me ever since the DRM bullshit and it's been downhill since then. I don't care for Xbox much anymore especially since Phil Spencer took over followed by Nadella.

 

[MayauMiao]

Lack of exclusives because if I can game on any other platform why would I waste more time and money owning another console?

I even now feel the same towards PS5 knowing full well it will also have some of its game coming to PC.

 

[SpokkX]

They really do no understand what drives a console - Exclusives

Exclusives was the reason I bought an og Xbox and Xbox 360

A new Nintendo console with exclusives? Sure I will get it
A Playstation with exlusves? Sure I will get it
An Xbox... but no exclusives? Nope

With all Xbox games going to PC - and running BETTER there. There is no reason for me to own an Xbox. None at all
Even if I could not afford a PC I would not get an Xbox either now.. since their games are coming to PS5 it seems

So Xbox would be my third choice to play well.. Xbox games after PC and PS5 now

I should add that Playstation is treding toward me not feeling the need for that console either with their PC releases (they still do not release EVERYTHING so at the moment I will hold on to a PS5)

 

[Kokoloko85]

They tried, but it was a mix of things. Kinnect made them money and expanded them, but with bigger titles only being Halo and Gears, plus such a push with Kinnect, it dampened them.
Then the Xbox one, TV, DRM, and always online (if you want offline buy a 360) put them in a bad light. With PS doing better than early PS3 days, the shift was done at this point in mindshare.

Then it was simply, PS4 having some better exclusives than Xbox 1.
I think PC ports day 1 killed maybe 10+million Xbox buyers, they had no reason to get a Xbox if they had a PC.
Gamepass probably was the beginning of the end, for sales anyway.

MS also might have thought it was a good idea to push consoles wars and constant articles that were simply bias towards them. In my opinion, they should of just done there stuff, kept quiet and stopped trying to make it a competition. They should of just gone with a more PC/Console hybrid from the start. Trying to outspend PS and kill them in the console war was a huge waste of money for them and pointless

 

[Lokaum D+]

Kinect and the Focus on TV killed Xbox against PS3, after that Sony just released banger after banger.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Not having exclusives.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Op a coward for nothing having a Spencer option.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Gamepass devaluing game sales, day one releases on PC/play anywhere shite leading to lack of console base growth, lack of quality exclusives released in a timely manner just to name a few. Phil driving the brand into its demise with his ridiculous decisions and saying shite like ‘ An 11 out of 10 game is not going to move consoles for us’……..what an utter moron and no surprise the brand is in the pitiful position it is in right now. Sad to see how badly Xbox has fallen due to his incompetence among others in leadership roles as well at Xbox.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

The whole Xbox One era, especially how it was initially revealed left a bad taste in many people's mouth. Then you throw in many years of meh exclusives and you start seeing a drop of interest in the brand.

 

[simpatico]

It was never that much of a compelling alternative to PlayStation outside of the first years of the very expensive PS3, and that was only in NA and UK, I think?
Also, people need to drop the rose-tinted glasses for the Xbox 360 already, it was irrelevant outside of the two aforementioned regions, and you will soon realize that it managed to sell as much thanks to the Kinect boost when casuals moved on from the Wii.
Kinect Aventures outsold Halo 3, FFS.

Many would argue that regions beyond those two are more irrelevant. If Sony stopped making Playstation tomorrow those regions would buy up whatever the US market produced.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Hard to believe Sony took so much mindshare with this video alone.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

All of the Above?

It's an example of death by thousands of flesh wounds really

 

[LimanimaPT]

Brand naming should be on the list.
Xbox
Xbox 360
Xbox one
Xbox x, xbox s....

What the fk is this? This causes consumer confusion... just name the thing xbox 1, 2, 3, etc...

 

[nial]

Many would argue that regions beyond those two are more irrelevant. If Sony stopped making Playstation tomorrow those regions would buy up whatever the US market produced.

I want you to guess how PS3 managed the outsell the Xbox 360 at the end.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Imho it was the stretch from the end of the 360 era when they dropped core gaming and focused on Kinect and only (admittedly great) XBLA titles and the “holy trinity” games, all the way through the Xbone launch period when they had awful management and messaging. They never recovered from the Xbone DRM fiasco.

 

[SidViscous]

Mismanagement, I mean how many chances did 343 studios get? and how many chances are "the initiative" still being given? they seem incapable of learning, its wild, you can work for them for almost 10 years and deliver fuck all and seemingly that doesn't get you fired, or even set off alarm bells.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Lacking quality exclusives on your platform is the sure fire path to irrelevancy.

 

[PropellerEar]

Lies perpetuated and regurgitated by people who feel threatened by certain video game consoles they don't own.

Ambassadors

 

[Kacho]

This drop happened before that announcement though.

The results for 2023 were abysmal, the executives saw there was no recovering from that. They then pivoted in 2024 to save the business.

The collapse happened after the multi platform announcements.

Q2 2024 — up 3%
Q3 2024 — down 31% — after the multi platform announcements in February
Q4 2024 — down 42%
Q1 2025 — down 29%

 

[xrnzaaas]

Trying to push the disc DRM and always online is a good starting point for the downfall and even though they eventually backtracked some people have already chosen PS4.

Lack of exclusives definitely weakened the brand during this and previous generation. And even after all the acquisitions we're still not getting a steady stream of first party games (like one big game every few months).

Game Pass is what's killing Xbox as a console. People stopped buying Xbox games, got used to 1$ promos and noticed that even without them you can play cheaper on PC, because you're not paying for online.

 

[Barakov]

Phil Spencer and the studio mismanagement is the real answer. Putting their games on PC and the other reasons definitely didn't help, though.

Mismanagement, I mean how many chances did 343 studios get? and how many chances are "the initiative" still being given? they seem incapable of learning, its wild, you can work for them for almost 10 years and deliver fuck all and seemingly that doesn't get you fired, or even set off alarm bells.

In any other industry Phil Spencer and the other top Xbox executives would have been long gone by now. Also, 343 and the initiative should have have been shuttered years ago.

 

[Humdinger]

I think it was none of the above. I think it was lack of good first-party exclusives and a mantra of "wait until next E3/next year" that went on for over a decade. Most people lost faith in their ability to deliver good exclusive games, and their brand (which was strong in the 360 days went on a slow, steady decline.

Shifting focus to GP, which pulled more resources away from focusing on good exclusives, was a contributing factor. The heavy cost of the acquisitions pushed things over the edge, but I think MS went into those acquisitions knowing they would end up going 3rd party to make up the deficit.

 

[Sooner]

Edit : looks like Kinetic Adventures(lol) was xbox's best, and the gen's best selling 1st party title.

And Wii Play is one of the best selling games of all-time.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Xbox One and everything involved with it. Watching E3 one year, and it felt like they spent most of the time talking about what the Xbox can do and very little of it was about gaming. It was TV, NFL, Kinect, Music, Social Media, etc. The price was quite hefty, and the design itself looked like a first run of a VCR.

The rumoured DRM and potential to block reselling games, sharing games with friends, and always online, etc

The attitude of the company. It was brutally ego driven and completely missed the mark. Don Mattricks attitude and responses were kinda the start of big companies admitting publicly they either hate us or think we are stupid little rats that will do what we are told or both.
They finally exposed themselves and in return, people voted with their wallets. Plus the Sony E3 press conference took a couple of minutes that ripped the piss outta Xbox and the crowd and media loved it.

Xbox saw Sonys PS3 nightmare beginnings and thought they couldn't possibly be as bad. They got it to the point that the Xbox brand has never gotten close to where it once was.

Yep. They completely fucked up and misread their audience on Xbox One.

They saw the success of Kinect with the 'general' audience and thought they'd be clever and become the entertainment hub of the living room instead of the gaming console. But they forgot how fickle the general audience is and they lost their core audience at the worst time.

People then went on to build up digital libraries on PS4 which made a switch to / back to Xbox an unappealing option.

They tried to counter that by offering a new game library with Gamepass but the damage was done.

That being said, Xbox is my most used console due to GP / Crossplay with PC. I hope they continue with GP and go 3rd party with larger releases to keep it viable as it's good value to me as a consumer.

 

[Fatbody]

Maybe not the most damaging but often overlooked is the ceding all those marketing/map pack/beta invite exclusivity contracts to Sony at the beginning of the PS4 generation. With that decision along with other moves like wasting money on locking down Tomb Raider of all things, they abandoned the only semblance of an identity they had which was the “dude bro shooter box.” They then later doubled down on that with various attempts at making “gaming for everyone.” And we all know what that leads to.

Now obviously they still wouldn’t have won the generation, but I imagine it would’ve kept things more competitive in the homeland which is not nothing.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The collapse happened after the multi platform announcements.

Q2 2024 — up 3%
Q3 2024 — down 31% — after the multi platform announcements in February
Q4 2024 — down 42%
Q1 2025 — down 29%

It was happening all throughout 2023

Q4 2023 was a disaster

 

[Russell]

The one thing that made it certain that I will never buy an Xbox console is when they devalued their brand by making their games playable on other platforms. I will never respect a company that ports their exclusives to other platforms.

 

[PeteBull]

If xbox was managed properly, with tons of exclusives, including timed, and i mean true exclusives like in og xbox and x360 days, even if it wouldnt sell as well as ps4/ps5 or switch, it would be selling easily 2x as good as the xbone/series sold.
TLDR: With some1 smart, actual gamer, at the lead, like peter moore, xbox one would still sell 80m+ consoles, series x/s would sell 50m+ by now at the least.

Just to compare how sad current xbox series situation is, lets look how many amazing games and full or at least timed exclusives og xbox had:

List of Original Xbox Exclusives

The complete List of Exclusive Games for Original Xbox, "Only On Xbox"

xbmcxbox.blogspot.com

And yeh, some were pc ports(morrowind) some had dreamcast version, like shenmue2(only in japan tho), but compare that list to what xbox series has and u see how lil care current ms has for its console, its basically non existant.
Hell even if u compare it to current ps5 exclusives, im pretty sure og xbox wins(ofc it lost terribly vs back then playstation2 and exclusive game the king had).

TLDR: Og xbox, or even dreamcast, so "failed" consoles, with their libraries and amount of exclusives, would easily dominate current console space.

 

[Kronark]

It's easily the complete mismanagement of their studios. People seemed to endure the red rings and the 360 did great as a console overall. The start of the downfall was the Xbox One focusing on TV / Kinect and everything Don Mattrick did to damage the brand. I felt bad for Phil Spencer for a few years because that entire console gen was lost before he even started. The crazy number of studio acquisitions started in 2015 or so SHOULD have set Xbox up for a longer term come back. They just had to endure the rest of the Xbox One generation, launch their PS5 competitor, and rebuild the 360 era success. But...

1) Phil completely mismanaged every studio they acquired to a comical degree. Hardly anything of value came out of the studio acquisitions, no creative projects or new IP lines. Xbox acquired like 15 studios but seemingly had no games to show as a result 5 years later.

- Studios that were successful were steered into failing projects: (Ex: Arkane / Redfall )
- Studios that were meh pre-acquisition continued to be meh (Ex: Compulsion Games / We Happy Few)
- Studios that managed critical success were shutdown for it (Ex: Tango / Hi-Fi Rush)
- In the end all they managed to do was get a strangle hold on the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Call of Duty IPs and all it cost them was like 100 billion or so (~$77 billion for Activision and Bethesda + Other studio costs + 10 Years of dev / labour costs... )
- The one successful new IP that spawned in the Xbox ecosystem was Sea of Thieves, done by a studio that had been acquired ages before Phil and were probably doing their own thing.

2) Existing major IPs were largely mismanaged. Forza Motorsport went into hibernation while Gran Turismo made it's comeback with Sport / 7. Halo was allowed to be run into the ground by 343.

3) What little success Microsoft did see in generating notable games that could have been exclusives (Sea of Thieves, Hi-Fi Rush, Forza Horizon, etc) they seemed to sell out immediately in favour of gamepass subscription numbers. They squandered what little success they had to build up subscribers instead of a console install base. The gamepass stuff seeems to be unsustainable now with costs rising and developers not feeling like it's worth it.

4) Phil doubled down on the stupid S / X hardware divide of the Xbox One. I think it's fine to have a less powerful console with a limited game roster but forcing 1 to 1 library parity just hamstrung the entire generation from the start. There are games Xbox players just don't access to because of this arbitrary limitation.

I think a larger question at this point: In 10 years what the fuck has Phil Spencer done right?

 

[m14]

Phil not bringing back MechAssault.

 

[RickMasters]

Who cares anymore? I just want the next Xbox to have my steam and my Xbox accounts on one box. Anything else is just you guys wanting to relive the moments Xbox games come to Xbox because nothing in Playstation is remotely interesting anyway but never want to admit that part.

 

[RickMasters]

It's easily the complete mismanagement of their studios. People seemed to endure the red rings and the 360 did great as a console overall. The start of the downfall was the Xbox One focusing on TV / Kinect and everything Don Mattrick did to damage the brand. I felt bad for Phil Spencer for a few years because that entire console gen was lost before he even started. The crazy number of studio acquisitions started in 2015 or so SHOULD have set Xbox up for a longer term come back. They just had to endure the rest of the Xbox One generation, launch their PS5 competitor, and rebuild the 360 era success. But...

1) Phil completely mismanaged every studio they acquired to a comical degree. Hardly anything of value came out of the studio acquisitions, no creative projects or new IP lines. Xbox acquired like 15 studios but seemingly had no games to show as a result 5 years later.

- Studios that were successful were steered into failing projects: (Ex: Arkane / Redfall )
- Studios that were meh pre-acquisition continued to be meh (Ex: Compulsion Games / We Happy Few)
- Studios that managed critical success were shutdown for it (Ex: Tango / Hi-Fi Rush)
- In the end all they managed to do was get a strangle hold on the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Call of Duty IPs and all it cost them was like 100 billion or so (~$77 billion for Activision and Bethesda + Other studio costs + 10 Years of dev / labour costs... )
- The one successful new IP that spawned in the Xbox ecosystem was Sea of Thieves, done by a studio that had been acquired ages before Phil and were probably doing their own thing.

2) Existing major IPs were largely mismanaged. Forza Motorsport went into hibernation while Gran Turismo made it's comeback with Sport / 7. Halo was allowed to be run into the ground by 343.

3) What little success Microsoft did see in generating notable games that could have been exclusives (Sea of Thieves, Hi-Fi Rush, Forza Horizon, etc) they seemed to sell out immediately in favour of gamepass subscription numbers. They squandered what little success they had to build up subscribers instead of a console install base. The gamepass stuff seeems to be unsustainable now with costs rising and developers not feeling like it's worth it.

4) Phil doubled down on the stupid S / X hardware divide of the Xbox One. I think it's fine to have a less powerful console with a limited game roster but forcing 1 to 1 library parity just hamstrung the entire generation from the start. There are games Xbox players just don't access to because of this arbitrary limitation.

I think a larger question at this point: In 10 years what the fuck has Phil Spencer done right?

*yawns*….. yeah…. Phil, Phil, phil……

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Xbox 180


Having to backtrack EVERYTHING they planned with Xbox One and still being overpriced by $100.

They way Sony just went on stage and did the complete opposite and dropped the price. They shit on the entire idea from orbit in a tactical strike.



And I still bought the console only to play Quantum Break and I have ZERO regrets about it.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Kinect and trying to make the 360 into the Wii. Everything else came after.

 

[Rivet]

The most damaging thing was definitely the lack of great exclusives over the years, outside of the first years of Xbox 360 obviously. Everything else is ultimately forgiven when you make people love your games.

They had everything to be number one. Remember they basically have infinite money compared to Sony, at least on paper... All they had to do is copy the AAA recipe with even bigger budgets and patiently wait a few years for the results. But they thought they knew better so here we are... Managing to half-kill your brand when your corporation is 30 times the size of your competitor : achievement unlocked.

 

[Pejo]

Everything in the poll contributed to a certain degree, but it's mostly about not having enough genuinely good games, despite the mountain of cash spent on studios/game budgets. There should be a constant flow of high quality AA output at LEAST with that many studios, plus the season AAA game drop. Something for every taste. Such a vast amount of resources squandered and wasted.

 

[//DEVIL//]

xbox was dead the day they announced day 1 games on PC.

PS5 is on life support with their games being on PC 1 year later.

Short-term sales are good. But I am pretty confident PS6 sales won't be as good as PS5 is. just my 2 cents. year over year it's only the PC market that is having % growth. rest of the consoles ( outside of the switch) not so much like the PC .


if MS / Sony / Nintendo announces a new generation system will be released tomorrow. it will be in this order for ME to buy: Nintendo >>>>>>> Playstation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Xbox

I am not a big nintendo fan. i love some of their games here and there. but I know I will not be able to play their games on any other system but Nintendo system. Playstation if I want exclusive game they have really bad and I dont want to wait for PC release. or might double dip again when its dirt cheap on PC. Xbox ? why would I buy it ?

Xbox could have been number 1 for me after all these studios they bought if it wasn't on other systems. I know this is imaginary talk. but how much you think the system will sell if all their games including Call of Duty is exclusive to their platform ??

 

[notseqi]

you don't fuck a brand by just making one mistake

so, all of the above

cant surf on CoD all your life

 

[Crayon]

Karma.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

Death by a 1,000 cuts. Wanting to do things consumers weren’t ready for.

I mean shit everything in the poll is a reason.

But without those reasons we would never have gotten gamepass and Xbox games on other platforms which is great for everyone else.

 

[GametimeUK]

One top of that it was a clearly weaker system that they tried to charge more for. They really showed their ass to the gaming world.

It was certainly the perfect shitstorm. The PS4 absolutely slapped the Xbox One in head to head's and at a cheaper price like you said.

 

[Pidull]

you don't fuck a brand by just making one mistake

so, all of the above

For me it's a question of what would've saved Xbox despite all the mistakes? And the answer is great games.

But they have none. Halo 4 failed, Halo 5 was worse. Infinite almost pulled it off... But didn't. Redfall sucked. Starfield is a step back.

Studio mismanagement is what covered the coffin with dirt.

 

[HogIsland]

It started with the loss of Bungie

 

[Neofire]

Putting their games day and date on PC definitely weakened the brand. Gamepass finished it off.

 

[Jesb]

Simply hiring the wrong people. Bad management has had their hand in alot of those mistakes.

 

[AngelMuffin]

For me it was the launch of the Xbox One. Hated Kinect and wasn’t happy that it was weaker than the PS4. Other than that, I guess the underwhelming showing of most of their exclusive games.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

For me it's a question of what would've saved Xbox despite all the mistakes? And the answer is great games.

But they have none. Halo 4 failed, Halo 5 was worse. Infinite almost pulled it off... But didn't. Redfall sucked. Starfield is a step back.

Studio mismanagement is what covered the coffin with dirt.

I think Xbox's demise can be encapsulated with these few words:

lack of commitment.

It seems MS/Xbox didn't want to make the hard work of nurturing, investing, and taking care of their own IP and studios.

They not only lost Bungie, Epic, or Lionhead, but those IPs also dwindled in quality and relevance over time.

Crackdown 3 was a massive disappointment that broke a lot Xbox fans back in the day.

the latest Forza Motorsports felt like it killed the franchise. And Flight Simulator was broken at release.

they acquired Zenimax; they lost Tango, Arkane and Bethesda with Starfield was a massive dissapoinment too.

Now with ABK, diablo and OW2 are facing the hardest competition ever with Rivals and PoE2.. and CoD keeps pissing off its audience

Phil Spencer said that he wanted to treat ABK/CoD as Minecraft, which is quite telling because that studio is basically doing their thing. At the same time, Minecraft has stagnated under MS riding high in an environment without competition.... lack of commitment.

I don't think games like Diablo, OW2 or even CoD can thrive going forward under a company like MS that has shown such levels of incompetence throughout its history.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I think Xbox's demise can be encapsulated with these few words:

lack of commitment.

It seems MS/Xbox didn't want to make the hard work of nurturing, investing, and taking care of their own IP and studios.

They not only lost Bungie, Epic, or Lionhead, but those IPs also dwindled in quality and relevance over time.

Crackdown 3 was a massive disappointment that broke a lot Xbox fans back in the day.

the latest Forza Motorsports felt like it killed the franchise. And Flight Simulator was broken at release.

they acquired Zenimax; they lost Tango, Arkane and Bethesda with Starfield was a massive dissapoinment too.

Now with ABK, diablo and OW2 are facing the hardest competition ever with Rivals and PoE2.. and CoD keeps pissing off its audience

Phil Spencer said that he wanted to treat ABK/CoD as Minecraft, which is quite telling because that studio is basically doing their thing. At the same time, Minecraft has stagnated under MS riding high in an environment without competition.... lack of commitment.

I don't think games like Diablo, OW2 or even CoD can thrive going forward under a company like MS that has shown such levels of incompetence throughout its history.

Microsoft is a company which is centered around exploiting monopolies in captive markets to extract maximum shareholder value

They are not, on a fundamental level, a creative company

Their various products all reflect this corporate culture and mentality to varying degrees

Liking Microsoft is sort of like liking the government

 

[DarkstarRising13]

Microsoft is a company which is centered around exploiting monopolies in captive markets to extract maximum shareholder value

They are not, on a fundamental level, a creative company

Their various products all reflect this corporate culture and mentality to varying degrees

Liking Microsoft is sort of like liking the government

This is why Steve Jobs and Gabe Newell had nothing positive to say about the "culture" of Microsoft, and why both men departed and started their own companies.