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[ChorizoPicozo]

I'd disagree. The XOne reveal and launch to me seems to be the genesis of all the shit that happened after. It started a downward spiral that MS just couldn't stop, no matter what they tried. In hindsight that generation turned out to be the most important of all, as people were starting their digital libraries around this time. Now normies with 100+ digital PSN games won't ever switch, irregardless of what MS offers.

You are forgetting how fucked up the PS3 generation was for Sony and PlayStation. In fact, it was orders of magnitude worse than the Red Ring of Death for Xbox.

The fact of the matter is that even with that tone-deaf Xbox One reveal and having a less powerful hardware, Xbox only needed a consistent output of AAA GOTY contenders, something that Sony did even at the brink of bankruptcy in a span of 5-7 years in the second half of the PS3 era. as simple as that

 

[LordCBH]

Realistically? Not just one thing.

But I answered studio management. Studio management has been abysmal for at least a decade+. The he only consistent thing they’ve had since 2010 has been Forza. That’s it.

 

[Cakeboxer]

The fact of the matter is that even with that tone-deaf Xbox One reveal and having a less powerful hardware, Xbox only needed a consistent output of AAA GOTY contenders, something that Sony did even at the brink of bankruptcy in a span of 5-7 years in the second half of the PS3 era. as simple as that

I don't think so. It took Sony 2,5 years for the first big hit (Uncharted 4) and by that time it was already game over. No Xbox game would have changed that.

 

[Anime-Vix]

Marketing. Xbox has allowed PS to lock down marketing for basically every major IP. GTA5, COD, Fifa, NBA2K, Harry Potter and Fortnite. This allowed PS to lock down the casual market. When you watching tv and seeing PS at the end of basically every game ad, you’re going to be influenced to buy it. XB has completely drop the ball on marketing since the 360 days and the lack of casual interest in the latest Xbox consoles reflect that

 

[clarky]

I never called PS3 era Uncharted a powerhouse, though? That was about Halo, which yes, used to be so (Halo 3 sold 14M units on the 360).
So, again.

How is Halo in the the same ball park as playstation worst? Killzone 2 didn't do anywhere near that, at 2.5 million. As far as can see only GT and TLOU out sold it? Most Sony games from that era did rough the same as xbox's. (5 million odd units).

I'm not sure what your point is.

Edit : looks like Kinetic Adventures(lol) was xbox's best, and the gen's best selling 1st party title.

 

[LordCBH]

I'd disagree. The XOne reveal and launch to me seems to be the genesis of all the shit that happened after. It started a downward spiral that MS just couldn't stop, no matter what they tried. In hindsight that generation turned out to be the most important of all, as people were starting their digital libraries around this time. Now normies with 100+ digital PSN games won't ever switch, irregardless of what MS offers.

Idk. They were already showing most, if not all, of those problems in the 3 year lead up to the reveal with the backend of the 360 generation. Heavy focus on Kinect, only consistent core titles being Forza and Halo. The last 3-4 years of the 360 generation were entirely and completely different from the first 3-4 years, and that spiral only continued from there.

 

[Fabieter]

xbox one was such a big fuck up at launch. They really just threw away everything they built up with the 360. Sony got very lucky that Xbox one crashed so hard at launch. Yeah yeah you can say they sold more units overall but not in the major countries and defiantly not for a profit. Sony was in a very low place after the ps3. They had no hit movies, no hit TVs, and lost a ton on the ps3.

You mean the same way xbox got lucky with ps3 crashing the first few years?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I don't think so. It took Sony 2,5 years for the first big hit (Uncharted 4) and by that time it was already game over. No Xbox game would have changed that.

im taking PS3

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Failure

 

[nial]

How is Halo in the the same ball park as playstation worst?

That's why I made it the single exception?
Outside of Halo, Xbox first-party was never as big of a deal as people are led to believe, hence the only real advantage Xbox having over PlayStation in consumer appeal was being a less expensive system in the early PS3 days.
Have both consoles at the same price and people will naturally lean into PlayStation, as we could actually see from summer 2014 onwards.

 

[rm082e]

Everything could have been forgiven after Phil took over and they got rid of the mandatory Kinect. All they had to do was make a bunch of great console exclusives that you had to buy an Xbox to play. They weren't able to do that, so they've slid into irrelevance.

I was super annoyed with the $600 PS3 price tag and no games to play. I was annoyed at Sony removing rumble and then trying to brainwash people into saying it wasn't important. I was ready to be done with the PlayStation brand. But they did exactly the thing they needed to do: They put out a bunch of great exclusives from first party studios. That's why people keep buying PlayStation and Nintendo consoles, and it's why the love for Xbox has faded. Microsoft should have retired Halo after Reach, Gears after Judgement, and started new IPs. If they had invested even 1/10th of the money they spent on all these acquisitions on new first party IP, they could have had a chance to rebuild the brand.

 

[Esppiral]

I need to vote several of those options but I am only allowed to take one

 

[Codes 208]

For me it was the xbox one pre-launch that became the first of many issues. The undeserved ps3 levels of cockiness when trying to push the kinect and online drm.
I felt insulted as an xbox fan during the tvtvtvkinecttv conference.

And whats worse: their golden child, halo, got hit with setback (halo mcc’s broken launch) after setback (halo 5’s existence)
So i pretty much swapped to ps4 (and eventually pc) back in 2016.

 

[Kacho]

The huge drop in hardware sales coincided with the announcement of porting their games to other platforms. That was the final nail in the coffin for an already struggling brand.

 

[Topher]

The huge drop in hardware sales coincided with the announcement of porting their games to other platforms. That was the final nail in the coffin of an already struggling brand.

Play Anywhere didn't happen until late 2016. Console sales dropped heavily the year before.

 

[Kacho]

Play Anywhere didn't happen until late 2016. Console sales dropped heavily the year before.

I’m not talking about play anywhere. I’m talking about the announcement last year. Since then hardware sales collapsed.

 

[Topher]

I’m not talking about play anywhere. I’m talking about the announcement last year. Since then hardware sales collapsed.

My bad. Misunderstood

 

[clarky]

That's why I made it the single exception?
Outside of Halo, Xbox first-party was never as big of a deal as people are led to believe, hence the only real advantage Xbox having over PlayStation in consumer appeal was being a less expensive system in the early PS3 days.
Have both consoles at the same price and people will naturally lean into PlayStation, as we could actually see from summer 2014 onwards.

Quick google says top ten first party unit sales from Xbox that gen are around the same as Playstations. If we include Halo, because why shouldn't we.

Kinetic Adventures was the best selling first party title that gen?

I could be wrong, weird discussion, but its killed some time until the POE2 stream shortly.

 

[ValiantInstance]

The Xbox One undid all the great work they did with the 360. Since then there's been too many disappointments and broken promises. I could pick a year at random from 2005-2011 and there would be more great exclusives in that year than there has been in the decade since.

 

[SHA]

The hole between halo, gears, Forza and other ips, most of them are after thoughts. And the whole brand felt a substitute to the original platform windows, it's not Playstation nor Nintendo where they stood on their feet as individual brands.

 

[ReyBrujo]

TV! TV! TV!

 

[Kacho]

My bad. Misunderstood

Obviously there’s a lot more to it, but that weird presser where they announced ports while simultaneously doing damage control killed them for good. They’re speed running to the end now.

 

[namenotfound]

I don't think so. It took Sony 2,5 years for the first big hit (Uncharted 4) and by that time it was already game over. No Xbox game would have changed that.

The Xbox One sold 60 million and the Series has sold almost 30 million. That's with, in my mind, their most successful new IP since the 360 launch from a Microsoft Game Studio being Sea of Thieves and that took a year or two to hit it's stride. Sony and Nintendo bounced back on the power of multiple of their games becoming hits. Focusing on comparison of the Gamecube, Wii U, and PS3. But even the PS4 had momentum going in with how great the Sony output on the PS3 became whereas on the 360 it was pretty dry the last couple years with Kinect. And PS4 early on had Bloodborne and MLB the Show was still exclusive at the time. And even if mediocre Infamous Second Son, Killzone Shadowfall. The Order: 1886, Driveclub, Knack. A bunch of mixed reception games but by the end of the PS3 there was certainty that there would be exclusives for the PS4 and they kept releasing. . I don't think the same could be said for the Xbox besides Kinect games by the end of the 360. That early PS4 medicrity may be better than the Xbox One MS internal studio lifetime and may be competitive with Xbox Series 2020-2024. 2013-2017 PS4 vs 2020-2024 years Xbox Series is easily PS4. I think 2013 to end of 2017 was better than the start of Xbox One to the end of 2024 Xbox Series. 4 years of releases vs 11

The 360 third party exclusive strategy should have been matched behind the scenes with Microsoft getting their first party studios built out and releasing at a solid cadence, something they haven't managed to this day. This year being the year when it looks like it may actually be solid but now with MS going multiplatform

 

[clarky]

The Xbox One undid all the great work they did with the 360. Since then there's been too many disappointments and broken promises. I could pick a year at random from 2005-2011 and there would be more great exclusives in that year than there has been in the decade since.

The rot actually started towards the mid-end of life 360 days with the Kinetic bullshit.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The first blow was the ring of the death the second was the Xbox one’s going Kinect, tv/apps feeling stronger than gaming itself, the third blow will be Xbox game pass in terms of killing Xbox live, and physical games that was a painful blow.

 

[Gamer79]

To make a long story short, they liked the smell of their own shit too much. They hit a home run with the 360 but got too arrogant and too greedy.

 

[Shifty1897]

It was the Always Online DRM. 30 million Xbox gamers defected in that generation alone and moved to PlayStation. 30 MILLION, an absolutely insane number of people who were loyal to a brand and the dropped it for the direct competitor. Absolutely insane.

 

[Kacho]

To make a long story short, they liked the smell of their own shit too much. They hit a home run with the 360 but got too arrogant and too greedy.

It’s funny to look back on now. They wanted to completely control our living room with the Xbox. Now they see that space as a dead end and are trying to brute force their way into the PC space after treating it like an afterthought for years.

 

[ungalo]

1) Studio mismanagement
2) Gamepass
3) Xbox One launch

Ports / lack of exclusives is a consequence of the first two and the sign MS gave up on the console war, not really a primary cause

 

[ValiantInstance]

There wasn't a singular mistake. There are always multiple mistakes that sink a big brand like Xbox.

But if I must pick only one, I'd say Game Pass.

They bellied up their entire business model, which was to sell first-party and third-party games, with Game Pass. They bet big, Game Pass didn't deliver as per expectations, and they got f'ed up.

Even if their hardware sales were down, they could have made a slow and gradual comeback by slowly releasing high-quality exclusives and regaining market shares (exactly how PlayStation and Nintendo did). They didn't have to reinvent the wheel, just follow a proven strategy.

Game Pass is a consequence of their decisions. They need to become a service because they killed the potential of their platform.

 

[nial]

Quick google says top ten first party unit sales from Xbox that gen are around the same as Playstations. If we include Halo, because why shouldn't we.

Because once again, Halo was the only real heavy hitter that Xbox had up to that point, what are we arguing over here? My point is that outside of it, the brand as a whole had no real staying power, hence the $400 Kinect-less Xbox One still falling behind PS4 in sales, because there's simply not enough appeal for it as a compelling alternative. There never was, really.

Kinetic Adventures was the best selling first party title that gen?

Good thing Kinect wasn't a fad and that it was a very sound decision to make it a big focus on the brand coming into next gen.

 

[BlackTron]

It all hurt, but the actual kiss of death isn't in the poll. The Xbox One reveal. At least RROD was breaking consoles people actually wanted to replace badly. Kinect was the beginning of the end but couldn't stop 360's momentum on its own. It took the Xbox One reveal to do that. Ever since that day Xbox has been a dying husk slowly being peeled away in layers. They took the energy behind the failed reveal and failed launch with failed hardware design AND failed software (MCC) and ran with it ever since, they never shook it off. One and Series have been coasting on leftover brand value from 360 while trying their damnest to dissipate it for good, sometimes aggressively. They succeeded.

 

[Kings Field]

DEI hires, Phil Spencer, bad first party output for years (which is getting better).

 

[Topher]

Obviously there’s a lot more to it, but that weird presser where they announced ports while simultaneously doing damage control killed them for good. They’re speed running to the end now.

Yep. That was a shitshow. Phil Spencer even had the audacity to say "it is only four games" knowing full well it was going to be more than that. Since then they have actively campaigned against their console with their horrible ads. I don't think I've ever seen a company work so hard to get people to not buy their product. I didn't think this gen could be worse for Xbox consoles than Xbox One, but Phil Spencer somehow managed it.

 

[clarky]

Because once again, Halo was the only real heavy hitter that Xbox had up to that point, what are we arguing over here? My point is that outside of it, the brand as a whole had no real staying power, hence the $400 Kinect-less Xbox One still falling behind PS4 in sales, because there's simply not enough appeal for it as a compelling alternative. There never was, really.

Good thing Kinect wasn't a fad and that it was a very sound decision to make it a big focus on the brand coming into next gen.

Cool, so we just ignore all the best selling xbox first party games because reasons?

The point was we are discussing when the Xbox brand shit the bed. Fuck knows how we ended up here. All good, lets just agree to disagree. (whatever the fuck it was about).

 

[BlackTron]

Good thing Kinect wasn't a fad and that it was a very sound decision to make it a big focus on the brand coming into next gen.

Nintendo Aikido'd Microsoft into owning themselves, and the mistake ended up being the beginning of the end for the whole brand. And then, they dropped the gimmick to find great success...again. JFC big N.

Now MS can try the handheld thing.

 

[Smokeberry]

I bought a 360 which red ringed after three months and was told they wouldn't do anything for me regarding exchange. I think they had a three month warranty at the time which it was just out of. Like a ding dong I bought another which did exactly the same thing, again after a few months. At this point I vowed never to buy another Microsoft console and never did. I've happily being playstation ever since.

 

[BlackTron]

Cool, so we just ignore all the best selling xbox first party games because reasons?

The point was we are discussing when the Xbox brand shit the bed. Fuck knows how we ended up here. All good, lets just agree to disagree. (whatever the fuck it was about).

It didn't read like a post from an American lol. I'm guessing in most of the world, Xbox was just Halo.

 

[Bernardougf]

Xbox division leadership and their always chasing trends vision

And Xbox fans for dont holding them accountable for all the shitness

 

[TheUsual]

That Xbox One reveal killed my interest in the brand that generation. And the 360 was my main console the generation before. They took steps to recover and I have a Series X but I think they drove way too many people away.

That's the big one to me at least. Younger people getting into gaming have a lot of options now too and not sure how Microsoft's branding comes off to them.

 

[HYDE]

Credit where it's due, they did have Psychonauts 2 in 2021.

Lol… because they bought Double Fine

 

[Sanepar]

They changing strategy all the time is their problem. Should have sticked with initial era of xbox360 strategy before kinect until nowadays.

Gamepass is cancer. The service is ok but anyone with a brain knows MS final strategy with it is to allow only rent for games like office.

 

[Cakeboxer]

The Xbox One sold 60 million and the Series has sold almost 30 million. That's with, in my mind, their most successful new IP since the 360 launch from a Microsoft Game Studio being Sea of Thieves and that took a year or two to hit it's stride. Sony and Nintendo bounced back on the power of multiple of their games becoming hits. Focusing on comparison of the Gamecube, Wii U, and PS3. But even the PS4 had momentum going in with how great the Sony output on the PS3 became whereas on the 360 it was pretty dry the last couple years with Kinect. And PS4 early on had Bloodborne and MLB the Show was still exclusive at the time. And even if mediocre Infamous Second Son, Killzone Shadowfall. The Order: 1886, Driveclub, Knack. A bunch of mixed reception games but by the end of the PS3 there was certainty that there would be exclusives for the PS4 and they kept releasing. . I don't think the same could be said for the Xbox besides Kinect games by the end of the 360. That early PS4 medicrity may be better than the Xbox One MS internal studio lifetime and may be competitive with Xbox Series 2020-2024. 2013-2017 PS4 vs 2020-2024 years Xbox Series is easily PS4. I think 2013 to end of 2017 was better than the start of Xbox One to the end of 2024 Xbox Series. 4 years of releases vs 11

The 360 third party exclusive strategy should have been matched behind the scenes with Microsoft getting their first party studios built out and releasing at a solid cadence, something they haven't managed to this day. This year being the year when it looks like it may actually be solid but now with MS going multiplatform

Yeah, Sony had Bloodborne, but it's not like Xbox One didn't have exlusives. I think Halo 5: Guardians, Forza Motorsport 6, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Ori and the Blind Forest, Gears of War 4 and probably others i don't remember were all released before Uncharted 4. Also Dead Rising 3, Ryse, Zoo Tycoon and 1-2 others at launch. Exclusives may help, but they are not everthing. Microsoft fucked up the start, above all with the price, and they were done since ever. No exclusive would have changed that. Everything after with BC, GP or Pc day1 was pure desperation, because they knew they were cooked.

But it doesn't help why things happened. Xbox hardware is dead and that's not a good thing for the market or players.

 

[winjer]

It's a close race, with so many problems, over so long.
But for me, the biggest one was the X360 RROD. I was affected by this and by the E73 error.
So I had to send my X360 twice for repair. It was still under warranty, and Microsoft did well with the shipping.
But the problem was that they ramped up the fans of my units, making it rather loud and whinny.
So I sold My X360 and all my games, and got a PS3 Slim.
Never bought another Xbox console again.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Honestly, since the Xbox One reveal it's just been downhill, even the acquisition of Acti-Blizz was done out of pure desperation to grab some headlines and try to sway some sales towards their dying platform, if they considered it properly they would have realised that the Microsoft Shareholders would look at the money coming from other platform sales for their games and insist on Xbox becoming a multi-platform publisher, i think ultimately the Xbox One reveal/Price/Always Online DRM/Mattrick and then the Acti Blizz sale was the final nail in the coffin.

Stick a fork in them, it's dead jim.

 

[nial]

Cool, so we just ignore all the best selling xbox first party games because reasons?

No? I wouldn't call those bad sales, they're good, but not what exactly big system sellers. 360-quality Gears and Forza wouldn't have made people move on from PS4.
Only Halo and fucking Kinect Adventures managed to sell at least 10M units on Xbox 360; Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon, The Last of Us (two TLOUs), Uncharted and Gran Turismo on PS4 all managed to do so, some even getting up to 20M sales. That's what a real heavy hitter output looks like.

Lol… because they bought Double Fine

They already owned the studio for like 3 years before Psyochonauts 2 released. I agree when it comes to Deathloop (it only had like 5 months of development post-MS acquisition), but not Psychonauts 2.

 

[clarky]

No? I wouldn't call those bad sales, they're good, but not what exactly big system sellers. 360-quality Gears and Forza wouldn't have made people move on from PS4.
Only Halo and fucking Kinect Adventures managed to sell at least 10M units on Xbox 360; Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon, The Last of Us (two TLOUs), Uncharted and Gran Turismo on PS4 all managed to do so, some even getting up to 20M sales. That's what a real heavy hitter output looks like.

They already owned the studio for like 3 years before Psyochonauts 2 released. I agree when it comes to Deathloop (it only had like 5 months of development post-MS acquisition), but not Psychonauts 2.

I just told you the top ten games sold are the same roughly on both platforms combined units wises, now you are bringing the PS4 into it because?

There's only a couple of games on the PS3 that sold over ten million as well, which is, you know what we were discussing.

I was done on the last post I'm definitely done now. I give up you win.

 

[Little Chicken]

Lies perpetuated and regurgitated by people who feel threatened by certain video game consoles they don't own.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Just a slow rot of not having compelling games for so many years. It became a joke during the Kinect era of 2011. It became a disaster by 2022.

I would say it was more than that. They were never happy to just be in the industry selling compelling content on good enough hardware that justified gamers buying, and them turning a decent profit from being a good platform.

They always had the lofty end-game of owning all of gaming and making us eat whatever garbage they provided in whatever business model they could get away with.

Them putting more effort into running down the PS3 by contractual parity manoeuvring and exclusive DLC, and paying shills than actually developing great software for the 360 for the last five years of that gen - while they pushed Kinect - was the mask totally slipping.

All the other console platforms have always focused on what they offered the customer.

 

[onQ123]

I've always thought Xbox 360 was dominant in the 7th Gen until 2010 focusing on crap Kinect discontinuing 1 Vs 100 and Halo Reach the first bad Halo, why? armour lock jet packs scrapped the old ranked system, then 2011 scrapped sent u a message UK loved that show and they changed the dashboard again from NXE to that shitty Metro one honestly Xbox had a winning hand and continued to shoot themselves in the foot, head, ass balls etc.

Check the data Kinect was the biggest year for Xbox 360