Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Henry Cavil in every Xbox package? That's gonna sell units.
phaedrus
Member
thismeinteil
Member
Hopefully its last?
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
haven't you heard. all analysts and pundits are saying that if you care about consoles, you are retarded.
Fess
Member
Prices are going up from inflation, PS5 is $700 where I’m at, PSVR2 is above $700. My living room PC was $3500, desktop PC over $5000.
And no blowjob included with any of them!
Fess
Member
Yeah a prebuilt PC designed by the surface team which boot into a Xbox UI big screen mode would’ve been popular at least among enthusiasts I think. With the possibility to either easily swap to Steam through the Xbox button or sideload Steam games into the Xbox UI like how you install external games into Steam. There are many ways to do it.
I dabbled a bit with Playnite on the new living room PC, it’s taking care of games from all launchers and put them in a fairly slick big picture user interface. It’s pretty cool but it’s janky compared to Steam or a console.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
New Hardware. Not New Console. Microsoft has really good lawyer-speak.
hinch7
Member
If Microsoft wants to subsidise a console like box and a powerful PC that can fit in peoples living rooms, why not. A purpose built $500-600 PC that can play 'next gen' games with Windows on it. Verses an expensive Linux PC with fairly limited support.
The thing may actually tap into the Asian market if they did that. And could potentially pull more people into their stores and subscription services.
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demigod
Member
The point of oem is not subsidizing, it will be sold for profit. Steam machines was sold for profit and was not worth it.
hinch7
Member
Not sure what your argument is. Steam Machines failed because no one wanted an expensive Linux PC with limited support.
Microsoft could launch a machine on their own terms (no OEM) and subsidise the cost by advertising their own games on their stores. Much like Valve does with the Steam Deck with Steam and Steam OS.
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djjinx2
Member
I and many others use windows on steam deck. It's not terrible and plays games just as well as SteamOS.
I also get to play games like FIFA and Fortnite, CoD etc which the Steam OS cant
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Steam Deck can realistically assume the customer already play on Steam. Gabe made painful decisions on pricing with that assumption and he said so publicly.
An Xbox PC cannot assume that the customer would use the Xbox store.
Team Andromeda
Member
Big and super powerful and coming in at £500
Sorcerer
Member
They wouldn't. But I'm willing to bet if you want to access anything other than Xbox mode on the machine, it will be under a subscription model. Part of Gamepass or separate? Not sure.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
Then it would be a borked PC and be the worst of both worlds.
II_JumPeR_I
Member
Not good.
Its already pretty bad IMO.
Its already pretty bad IMO.
Snake29
Banned
Nobody wants some extra layer over their windows already and who is going to buy this? PC gamers are not going to buy this, casuals won’t buy this, so all these “MS is going to make a pc with xbox overlay”, is just the stupidest thing you can ever do. A simple plug and play console right now can’t even sell, why would this be something? Steam machines failed because of this. Prices of these OEM machines will be higher and not casual friendly at all.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
You don't understand what I mean. Microsoft has a way for you to activate, say, Windows XP mode, or Windows 95, for legacy programs. I am saying Xbox Mode would just be another thing built natively INTO WINDOWS.
You wouldn't be buying this for Xbox. Of course not. You would be buying Windows for Windows things. It's just so happens if you had transplanted your Xbox library somehow, Windows would let you run the program as if you are on a console, for those who have a legacy library of games they didn't want to give up.
I didn't say anything about buying a new PC for Xbox, that would be insane.
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Sid Of Bee
Member
Their best bet IMO is to put out a handheld that has the same level of performance as the Xbox Series S, maintain the X as a standard, and put it a $800-1000 high performance spec box. A 3 tiered approach coupled with Game pass.
Basically Tier 1 - Series S and Series P (portable) 1440p gaming, 4 teraflops, 12gb ram
Tier 2- The Series X, including a disc less variant and various storage versions
Tier 3 - The Series R, 4k 120hz, 8k capable, VR headset compatibility, 30+ teraflops, 20gb ram, AI enhanced ray tracing, DLSS like features, pro spec for competitive gaming and gamers willing to spend for the added fidelity.
3 performance tiers for developers. Which already is the case when you are considering that Nintendo is in the fray and that there are higher spec PCs and Sony is also going to put out a high-spec box.
Basically Tier 1 - Series S and Series P (portable) 1440p gaming, 4 teraflops, 12gb ram
Tier 2- The Series X, including a disc less variant and various storage versions
Tier 3 - The Series R, 4k 120hz, 8k capable, VR headset compatibility, 30+ teraflops, 20gb ram, AI enhanced ray tracing, DLSS like features, pro spec for competitive gaming and gamers willing to spend for the added fidelity.
3 performance tiers for developers. Which already is the case when you are considering that Nintendo is in the fray and that there are higher spec PCs and Sony is also going to put out a high-spec box.
digital_ghost
Member
Ever seen a green rat infested bubonic plague? It will be like that.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. The Console had to be the main option in order to pay for maintaining itself each generation. As soon as owning a console becomes optional, the console option loses its business case to exist entirely.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I would like a high-end console to natively pair alongside a portable Switch-like native Xbox handheld. And the two wirelessly interface with each other and keep saves and downloads tracked between the two seamlessly.
For me, with this generation I think consoles have reached a point where graphics don’t really need much improvement. So just a modest increase in spec over Series X but far more energy efficient, and even faster loading, is really all I want.
Make the leap like the GameCube to the Wii, is really fine by me this next go-round.
Input-wise, Series X controllers are the peak of console controllers and I want no changes, other than the option to buy a version with silent buttons vs clicky. But otherwise I honestly wouldn’t change anything.
For me, with this generation I think consoles have reached a point where graphics don’t really need much improvement. So just a modest increase in spec over Series X but far more energy efficient, and even faster loading, is really all I want.
Make the leap like the GameCube to the Wii, is really fine by me this next go-round.
Input-wise, Series X controllers are the peak of console controllers and I want no changes, other than the option to buy a version with silent buttons vs clicky. But otherwise I honestly wouldn’t change anything.
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Hudo
Member
The console is just there as an option to get into the ecosystem (and also serves as a development baseline for devs to target against). Not the only option. The console will likely be subsidized by the digital platform/service. That's also how the stupid Hulu boxes and whatnot work.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I personally would love for them to go out and test the water on like a 799 box. Go all out.
Topher
Identifies as young
DOA unless it is a PC
thismeinteil
Member
While any sane company would jump off at this point, that's not MS's MO. They love running their failures into the ground first. Just look at Zune and Windows Phone. They want that Wii U/Vita failure (<20M) first, then they'll go third party fully.
So yea, I completely believe the rumors that they have bought into the idea that all they need to beat the PS6 is a year or two head start. Oh, and being seen as more powerful from the start. Because they think that's all the 360 had going for it, despite the PS3 selling more units in its first year than the 360. It had nothing to do with Sony's missteps with the PS3. Of course, smart people know otherwise and it also doesn't change the fact the PS6 is going to take Xbox's coveted power crown back from NeXbox the second it's announced.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You don't need a console with the same specs for backwards compatibility, it's running a virtual machine layer in its current form, it doesn't use native components like the fat PS3 did for PS2 emulation.
v
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Obvious difference (usually seen in video game forums) between those who (when assessing the repercussions and implications of specific information) prefer to be radical and to express their opinion based on their hatred of a brand and their internal desire for it to disappear VS those who prefer to do so from a minimum of caution, logic and common sense.
Nothing new not relevant.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Obviously things can change but as of right now I don't believe thats their plan and for sure don't think that internal email would have included the bit about next gen hardware if it was, would have just been omitted
MS will be completely 3rd party with gamepass sub as an option like EA by next Gen
REDRZA MWS
Member
I do like that case and the Xbox logo. Although my PC would be like the next gen version of thatNext Gen Xbox:
diffusionx
Gold Member
There's no snark, I thought my original post was clear. it's not like some vague announcement made years ahead of time is written in blood. They could cancel it at any time.
Look at the numbers and the Series is that level of failure. It's just not a viable console. There's no reason to think that another Xbox console will be any different. Even Phil said as much when he said that as people started building up their digital library (starting on PS4/One) that created a lock-in effect.
Plus, in a broader sense, MS is a software company. They know how to sell software. That's when they do their best. The Windows Phone was their attempt at creating an ecosystem and they tried to use MS software to bring people to it, but they have had 1000000x more success by just putting their software on Android and iOS and letting other people make the hardware. I don't see why it would be any different for vidya.
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cash_longfellow
Member
rm082e
Member
I just can't picture them actually launching a new walled garden console generation. The Series consoles have really fallen off in hardware sales so badly over the last year that they're now selling millions of units less per month than the Xbox One did at this same point in the life cycle. Combine that with some of the game sales numbers we've seen recently where PS4 versions of multi-platform games are outselling the Series versions, and I don't know how they could possibly justify sinking billions of dollars into a new hardware generation.
As for a budget Windows PC with an Xbox logo, I'm not really buying that as a strategy. I don't get how any version of that solves any of their problems. A fixed hardware spec seems like it would defeat the value of a PC where you can upgrade your components to get better performance. Also, they tried having their own marketplace for the PC with Games for Windows Live and the Microsoft Store. Both of those failed. They eventually submitted to Steam like everyone else. So, what exactly is the idea here? How does hardware that isn't a walled garden enable them to make more money?
I know Sarah Bond alluded to some powerful new hardware in that business update video, but there's nothing to hold them to that. Tom at Moore's Law Is Dead reported recently that they just signed the deal with AMD to start the design process. They probably have a number of clauses in that contract that allows them to bail out if they decide it's not worth doing another generation of hardware. If they start putting out more of their exclusives on PS5 and they sell well, they may decide it's less risk in the long run to just go full third party publisher.
Just making good hardware isn't what sells a platform. All available evidence from the last 40 years has shown us a console has to have great exclusives to catch on. Phil has made it clear with all his interviews that big exclusives will continue to be less and less a part of their strategy going forward. I personally think he and Nadella realized the Xbox as a console brand was unsalvageable somewhere around 8 years ago. I think they've been making moves to keep that business unit growing and bringing in money with the understanding that the Xbox console would eventually go away. Game Pass and buying up all the devs, Bethesda, and Activision has been setting themselves up to replace that revenue stream they knew was going to wither and die.
As for the handheld, I don't get that either. If it's a walled garden, it's going to be even less appealing than the Series consoles. If it's a windows machine, then it's competing with all the other handhelds, which seems like a bad bet for them.
I would not want to be in Phil's shoes right now.
As for a budget Windows PC with an Xbox logo, I'm not really buying that as a strategy. I don't get how any version of that solves any of their problems. A fixed hardware spec seems like it would defeat the value of a PC where you can upgrade your components to get better performance. Also, they tried having their own marketplace for the PC with Games for Windows Live and the Microsoft Store. Both of those failed. They eventually submitted to Steam like everyone else. So, what exactly is the idea here? How does hardware that isn't a walled garden enable them to make more money?
I know Sarah Bond alluded to some powerful new hardware in that business update video, but there's nothing to hold them to that. Tom at Moore's Law Is Dead reported recently that they just signed the deal with AMD to start the design process. They probably have a number of clauses in that contract that allows them to bail out if they decide it's not worth doing another generation of hardware. If they start putting out more of their exclusives on PS5 and they sell well, they may decide it's less risk in the long run to just go full third party publisher.
Just making good hardware isn't what sells a platform. All available evidence from the last 40 years has shown us a console has to have great exclusives to catch on. Phil has made it clear with all his interviews that big exclusives will continue to be less and less a part of their strategy going forward. I personally think he and Nadella realized the Xbox as a console brand was unsalvageable somewhere around 8 years ago. I think they've been making moves to keep that business unit growing and bringing in money with the understanding that the Xbox console would eventually go away. Game Pass and buying up all the devs, Bethesda, and Activision has been setting themselves up to replace that revenue stream they knew was going to wither and die.
As for the handheld, I don't get that either. If it's a walled garden, it's going to be even less appealing than the Series consoles. If it's a windows machine, then it's competing with all the other handhelds, which seems like a bad bet for them.
I would not want to be in Phil's shoes right now.
Topher
Identifies as young
Wasn't really vague at all to me so your post came across as if you weren't aware of what they had previously said. Cancelling at this point would be a massive PR nightmare. I don't see that happening.
aries_71
Junior Member
I wonder about the legal aspects of it. It may be not that easy for MS to do such thing. They signed an agreement with a publisher to have the game on a specific console and charged 30% for it. The agreement probably precludes having the game on PC through an Xbox emulator.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I don't see them backtracking now either
I have said this before but I think they are attacking hardware from a different angle this next time plus expanding Gamepass perks which likely gets revealed in June at their show
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And, again, like you said before. If plans had changed between Feb and yesterday, it would not be a highlight of Sara's email.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don’t agree. Sure guys like Colt Eastwood would be distraught but the Series consoles are not doing well and they’re not going to turn it around. I can’t imagine too many people are stoked about the prospect of spending $500 on a Xbox again, after the past few years.
Topher
Identifies as young
I don't know that they are going to turn it around either, but seems certain they are going to try. Definitely have to approach this differently like
HeisenbergFX4
is suggesting. I said weeks ago that if they just release another Xbox that is simply the next iteration of RDNA then it will be a massive failure.So with the assumption that Microsoft has something vastly different in mind, the big question is what will that be. Last time Microsoft tried to create something that appealed to a larger audience it became this weird "TV TV TV" monstosity. Phil Spencer's words of late seem to indicate they are going to attempt to broaden appeal once again. I certainly don't think that it is impossible that Microsoft reverses course on what they have already said, but if that happens then it means Nadella pulled a "Odin smite" move on Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond's plans. That would be a pivotal moment not just in Xbox history, but gaming overall.
This is going to be an interesting year. No doubt about that.
djjinx2
Member
It's more than just consoles that Microsoft want Xbox to do well for though. There's streaming, and windows too, AI in gaming is another.
They (Xbox) will always be more than just a publisher. In what form though is another story.
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