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[kiphalfton]

If this came true, just think of all the ugly designs.

 

[adamsapple]

Imagine a hand-held PC which can run games to Series S specs.

That recent DF video about Steamdeck vs Series S was interesting.

 

[Kdad]

If I cant get a Sears Xbox to go with my Sears VCS I'll fucking RAGE.

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Because the SEGA Xbox wouldn't need to sell console-level numbers to be worth it, and can double as a full-fledged PC. And in the SEGA example, they could design custom casings calling back to classic systems for nostalgia purposes, even with accompanying peripherals (USB-based of course, and compatible with general PCs).

Currently, Xbox has zero of these appeals and that's part of the reason its brand in hardware sales and whatnot has been declining so severely.

It still needs to sell console level numbers in order to have people want to develop software for it. So between that and other Xboxes it still needs to sell.

How can it double as a PC if it can't play PC games and if it can play PC games, why is anyone paying licensing fees for it?

If we're just talking about custom casings and controllers, I think there are other ways to accomplish that.

 

[THE DUCK]

Yeah, apple are totally going to take over a failed project from their bitter rival lol.

If apple do a console it won't be an xbox lay of the lsd and get real.

Well if we are being real, just exactly how will apple get games on thier console without owing a single game developer? Third party only? Good luck with that.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

100%

When it comes to gaming machines the only thing I'm concerned about is how many frames I can get for my dollars, and at I think that ratio would completely fall apart with the OEMs.

They will also have to worry about their pre-build gaming PCs, because at $2000 that xbox PC, or whatever it is, better perform at least on par with whatever gaming PC offering they have, because otherwise why would you buy the xbox branded one? The xbox UX? I dunno.

I guess that they would just differentiate the products with a gaming PC and workstation PC designation. The gaming PCs would come with the fastest of everything in the most compact chassis they can manage and ship with the "Windows XB" version, and their other PCs will ship with Windows 11 or Windows Server where applicable. Of course, there will always be an option within Windows to switch between OS platforms. Kinda like what they did with Windows S.

 

[twilo99]

Well if we are being real, just exactly how will apple get games on thier console without owing a single game developer? Third party only? Good luck with that.

Apple does very well when it comes to attracting developers and software to their platforms, games would be a problem at all. It might take some time, but if they do a console, every single dev would want to publish on there.

 

[Kdad]

Apple does very well when it comes to attracting developers and software to their platforms, games would be a problem at all. It might take some time, but if they do a console, every single dev would want to publish on there.

They could pop a M3 chip into an Apple TV box tomorrow if they wanted too...but it would devalue their other M3 hardware they sell at >$1000 a pop....I think that's what keeps them out of the console 'race'...the hardware is being sold at a loss (at least initially...Nin is probably banking a shit ton on their old ass Switch at the moment) and that isn't Apple's game. If they did a console it would be with 2 year old chips and not bleeding edge...they'd still get traction if, for instance they repurposed M3 into a device down the road when M5 or 6 is the shiny new thing.

 

[Three]

Phils spencers personal rent boy chimes in.

Identity crisis incoming.

This has to be fake right? Wasn't he banned from era and wasn't he the one who started these rumours with countless articles and tweets?

 

[bitbydeath]

True, including any rumors of any games becoming multi-platform or Microsoft branded gaming-handhelds or SEGAvangelist 's inside sources.

SEGAvangelist didn’t even realise it was Microsoft that killed Sega, he has no sources.

 

[BlackTron]

I`d understand MS giving up on the closed hardware ecosystem for good at this point, but I personally hope they just pull through because for us consumers direct competition is always the best.

Naive....

Welcome to capitalism, where every single competitor is always aiming for domination. As if Sony or Nintendo wouldn't try that if their warchests were even remotely capable of supporting such ambitions.....
That is exactly what competition means.

Disagree. Capitalism DOES mean that you wish to dominate through competition. This means that the most competent players with the best product thrive and crowd out the rest.

However, Microsoft failed to dominate through competition, and instead of looking at themselves and changing the reasons why they were failing, decided it would be easier to dominate through subjugation.

The idea is that by buying out their competition/their competition's allies, customers will have no choice but to do business with MS. The problem is that all of the issues that made them fail in the first place will then be applied to their acquired resources and properties. This has been seen time and again in gaming and in their other sectors.

If a company is smart they can consciously choose not to do this and focus on what they are doing best to make them profitable. That is, if Nintendo had the financial ability to purchase Xbox, they would never do it. They would rather reinvest it back into their own business which they already run at superior margins to Xbox. The strategy they have is already slaying. They don't need to subjugate anybody. They would see the Xbox division as a waste of money. Even Sony who is doing better, Nintendo would likely think they could see far better returns on the investment elsewhere than buying them out -like uh salaries and game development, all of which makes massive returns for Nintendo. Since their goal is raking in money hand over fist, and not taking options away or killing competition, MS has no value to them.

MS sees Nintendo and wants it, because they want to take away the option of choosing their competitor while enriching themselves. But of course, the value of Nintendo's brands would begin to depreciate the moment it happened because they lack the desire or ability to manage those properties at all. They won't magically "become Nintendo" by buying them out. The formula that makes N successful and profitable is in its management. That management is focused on creating and delivering value to customers (competing) and that's why they wouldn't see value in owning Xbox, but Xbox wants them. Only to drive that value into the ground over 5-10 years then move on to the next victim. Capitalism definitely offers the room for smart business people to choose not to do this.

 

[icerock]

I have mentioned before even while Ybarra was still with Xbox I had heard him and Phil mention projects coming down the pipeline that still to this day haven't seen the light of day but this was one of those.

I am glad icerock posted what he did and now Jez confirming they are working with OEMs though Jez says Windows based, I had always heard Xbox OS based but that was literally years ago

It is not only Jez, another prominent Xbox insider backed up the claim on hardware. Something which was "pitched" officially years ago but weren't aware of them actively working on it.

A lot more has come out since this thread gained traction but I am sitting on it, maybe someone else can eventually find the leaks and post them here.

 

[THE DUCK]

Apple does very well when it comes to attracting developers and software to their platforms, games would be a problem at all. It might take some time, but if they do a console, every single dev would want to publish on there.

So you would have them launch with zero exclusives? Good luck with that. Even if they bought a few timed exclusives it wouldn't be anywhere near enough to successfully launch a console.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Selling OS and productivity software works great for them, might as well sell entertainment software. No way their current gamepass engagement can sustain all the studios they just picked up. They don’t have a strong enough console install base…3rd party is the way.

 

[Ozzie666]

Immediately thought about the 3D0 and Steam box. The one thing 3D0 didn't have to combat hardware was licensing fees or a digital store front to subsidize the boxes. Then again in some third party box model, would Microsoft share those sbusidies, no idea. So maybe it's similar to 3D0 siutation. Maybe it's just slapping a Gamepass sticker on PC builds.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Selling OS and productivity software works great for them, might as well sell entertainment software. No way their current gamepass engagement can sustain all the studios they just picked up. They don’t have a strong enough console install base…3rd party is the way.

Pretty much. Their strategy looked sound, but acquiring so many studios where everything is based on Gamepass hinges on a huge installed base to feed the subscription numbers. The Series did not sell as planned, and now they are between a rock and a hard place, where the only way to further drive GP is to go 3rd party.

 

[demigod]

It is not only Jez, another prominent Xbox insider backed up the claim on hardware. Something which was "pitched" officially years ago but weren't aware of them actively working on it.

A lot more has come out since this thread gained traction but I am sitting on it, maybe someone else can eventually find the leaks and post them here.

So wait, Jez confirmed the new console hardware is real but posted differently? Or were they both talking about the handhelds?

 

[BlackTron]

If this came true, just think of all the ugly designs.

If we thinking gaming PC designs are silly now, wait until they're actually trying to be a console

 

[SEGAvangelist]

True, including any rumors of any games becoming multi-platform or Microsoft branded gaming-handhelds or SEGAvangelist 's inside sources.

My sources are the best sources.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

SEGAvangelist didn’t even realise it was Microsoft that killed Sega, he has no sources.

Everyone knows the evil villains at Sony killed SEGA.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It is not only Jez, another prominent Xbox insider backed up the claim on hardware. Something which was "pitched" officially years ago but weren't aware of them actively working on it.

A lot more has come out since this thread gained traction but I am sitting on it, maybe someone else can eventually find the leaks and post them here.

To be a fly on the wall

I simply can’t say much but the people who think Xbox is going to get out of the console hardware business and go straight 3rd party are going to be so disappointed

It sounds like they want doubling down and no longer following status quo’s

In fact I think we hear more about the next Xbox possibly before the PS5 Pro if Sony waits to reveal it like they did the PS4 Pro

 

[bender]

It sounds like they want doubling down and no longer following status quo’s

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[bender]

Nothing would surprise me at this point but doubling down would make go home Xbox, you're drunk seem prophetic.

 

[adamsapple]

To be a fly on the wall

I simply can’t say much but the people who think Xbox is going to get out of the console hardware business and go straight 3rd party are going to be so disappointed

It sounds like they want doubling down and no longer following status quo’s

In fact I think we hear more about the next Xbox possibly before the PS5 Pro if Sony waits to reveal it like they did the PS4 Pro

The whole thing about them leaving the hardware division, let alone the gaming industry, reeks of hopium at best.

 

[Three]

To be a fly on the wall

I simply can’t say much but the people who think Xbox is going to get out of the console hardware business and go straight 3rd party are going to be so disappointed

It sounds like they want doubling down and no longer following status quo’s

In fact I think we hear more about the next Xbox possibly before the PS5 Pro if Sony waits to reveal it like they did the PS4 Pro

Tom seems to be teasing something happening in June.

 

[Mownoc]

So... Kojima in that state of play last night.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The whole thing about them leaving the hardware division, let alone the gaming industry, reeks of hopium at best.

Xbox isn't going to get better. So if MS want to keep the traincrash going, they can pay for it. At some point there is going to be a moment when MS realized they are wasting money paying people who aren't doing shit.

I mean if they want to turn themselves into the laughing stock of the industry, no one is going to stop them. We are just saying it is irrational that they are doubling down.

 

[Doctor Hades]

Potentially this is a nice idea as the customer can choose the hardware they want but it would also have one major drawback: that is that it would make it impossible for developers to test Xbox games on a single fixed platform which could then lead to the same situation we have on PC where games are poorly optimised and have stuttering and other issues not normally found in the console version.

Personally, if Microsoft took this route then it would be just the justification I would need to not bother with Xbox consoles at all and just stick with a gaming PC as the third-party console version would just be pre-built lower spec PC presumably in a small form factor as set by Microsoft.

 

[icerock]

So... Kojima in that state of play last night.

More context.

1. Kojima MGS Spiritual Successor - This was doing rounds in a discord I am in few days prior to SoP. The rumor was new IP being a spiritual successor to MGS alongwith a movie, which had few skeptical about it's genuineness (including myself) as to why they would announce in a SoP, and why make a film on a new IP. It did not leak anywhere else, few people caught on Kojima making a movie but nothing on a new IP. It is pretty clear after yesterday, it is a mixture of both.

2. Xbox OEM - Tom Warren has further doubled down on this after yesterday's SoP. This seems to be their intended route heading into next-gen.

3. Xbox multi-plat rumors - There are fresh rumors about this being announced soon, with 3rd week of Feb being touted as a possible date.

 

[Mownoc]

2. Xbox OEM - Tom Warren has further doubled down on this after yesterday's SoP. This seems to be their intended route heading into next-gen.

Do you have a link where I can read what he said about this?

 

[Z O N E]

Honestly, I'm pissed that Microsoft hasn't made a console that can also somehow have Steam/Epic Games baked into it too, especially since the Xbox OS is a modified Windows OS.

Booting up the console and having the option of playing a bunch of Steam games or if you want the traditional Xbox would be killer.

 

[Bond007]

Multiple 3rd party skus- different level of power? Sounds like a cluster and so baseline for inconsistent performance of games and lowest common denominator. I never really like microsoft ideas- they are always "gamer" veiled ways of screwing us.

 

[00_Zer0]

i doubt this rumor is true. Either way this strategy won't work. No one is going to sell consoles for profit, let alone at a loss unless somehow they control the ecosystem that the games are coming from. This isn't the android phone market when you have competitors like Sony and Nintendo regularly over shadowing your every effort.

Could you imagine Microsoft trying to drum up support for 3rd party hardware makers. "Please sell our baseline hardware spec, and run our ecosystem/walled garden with every unit, Oh and by the way, we still get a 30% cut of every game you sell on your own hardware that we are graciously allowing you to make for us!!" Stupid logic, and it's not going to happen.

 

[00_Zer0]

Multiple 3rd party skus- different level of power? Sounds like a cluster and so baseline for inconsistent performance of games and lowest common denominator. I never really like microsoft ideas- they are always "gamer" veiled ways of screwing us.

Hey, at least they make good controllers. (Non Elite versions)

 

[Bond007]

Hey, at least they make good controllers. (Non Elite versions)

Besides comfort which i enjoy over the DS, they feel cheap and i hate the clicking. lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Honestly, I'm pissed that Microsoft hasn't made a console that can also somehow have Steam/Epic Games baked into it too, especially since the Xbox OS is a modified Windows OS.

Booting up the console and having the option of playing a bunch of Steam games or if you want the traditional Xbox would be killer.

Yeah....it would be killer alright. As in it would completely kill the Xbox , which is already on life support.

 

[BlackTron]

i doubt this rumor is true. Either way this strategy won't work. No one is going to sell consoles for profit, let alone at a loss unless somehow they control the ecosystem that the games are coming from. This isn't the android phone market when you have competitors like Sony and Nintendo regularly over shadowing your every effort.

Could you imagine Microsoft trying to drum up support for 3rd party hardware makers. "Please sell our baseline hardware spec, and run our ecosystem/walled garden with every unit, Oh and by the way, we still get a 30% cut of every game you sell on your own hardware that we are graciously are allowing you to make for us!!" Stupid logic, and it's not going to happen.

To the manufacturer it will be like making and selling a PC. Yes a Xbox of the same power as a PS will cost more, but they will have more skus and lower entry point. Of course consoles will not be sold at loss. It will be at profit like all other third party game hardware is sold for profit. It's not a walled garden tied to the hardware you can access it from a PC or even phone while they try to get Xbox on even more screens. The user base isn't tied to the console so they don't care about it.

 

[00_Zer0]

Besides comfort which i enjoy over the DS, they feel cheap and i hate the clicking. lol

Preference is a funny thing. It's funny because I enjoy the clickiness. If it makes you feel better the new revision that leaked is supposed to have gyro added and quieter buttons and thumbsticks.

 

[thismeinteil]

Yeah, cuz that worked out so well for the Steam Machine. Oh wait... no it didn't.

The point of manufacturing your own console is you know the exact specifications of each part and you can oversee quality control. Handing that over to multiple third parties is just a mistake. For one, when you flood the market with multiple devices by multiple manufacturers, it just confuses and oversaturates the market. And two, if devices start failing then your name is still on the line, even though you technically weren't the one making them.

 

[twilo99]

Multiple 3rd party skus- different level of power? Sounds like a cluster and so baseline for inconsistent performance of games and lowest common denominator. I never really like microsoft ideas- they are always "gamer" veiled ways of screwing us.

The gaming console has always been the lowest common denominator so if Xbox goes away PlayStation will be there for us to represent that very concept.

 

[00_Zer0]

To the manufacturer it will be like making and selling a PC. Yes a Xbox of the same power as a PS will cost more, but they will have more skus and lower entry point. Of course consoles will not be sold at loss. It will be at profit like all other third party game hardware is sold for profit. It's not a walled garden tied to the hardware you can access it from a PC or even phone while they try to get Xbox on even more screens. The user base isn't tied to the console so they don't care about it.

At that points it's just a Windows PC. MS can't monetize XBox Live or XBox OS or whatever they call it to PC gamers when they already have a Windows platform/Linux/Steam OS and competitors like Valve looking like the good guy. Does anyone remember Games for Windows Live? Yeah, it was a colossal failure.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Multiple 3rd party skus- different level of power? Sounds like a cluster and so baseline for inconsistent performance of games and lowest common denominator. I never really like microsoft ideas- they are always "gamer" veiled ways of screwing us.

I could see multiple skus similar to the Series S and Series X and eventually a Series X Pro.

That way manufacturers could decide, hey we're not making the Series S or X, we're just going to make the X Pro to compete with the high end market.

The problem ultimately, is I don't know how any individual manufacturer would sell enough units to make any significant profit unless they were selling at such high margins that these units wouldn't sell in the first place.

Unless Microsoft is basically telling the world that Xbox via Microsoft is dead and if you want to keep Xbox you'll pay these manufacturers whatever they want to keep Xbox hardware alive, i.e. buying an XSX for 600 dollars. You'll probably end up with advertising and accessory branding too I'm sure.

I don't see any market there for the rest of the generation, but maybe you have people so tied to Xbox Live and GamePass that you could still sell 20-25 million next gen.

 

[BlackTron]

At that points it's just a Windows PC. MS can't monetize XBox Live or XBox OS or whatever they call it to PC gamers when they already have a Windows platform/Linux/Steam OS and competitors like Valve looking like the good guy. Does anyone remember Games for Windows Live? Yeah, it was a colossal failure.

It's not a windows PC because it will not have Windows. The console is still there for people who want the console experience. I assume some people will still build a $2000 PC and others will buy a box that just plays games for $300-600. Actually as a niche item there might be money to be made on $1k licensed Xbox's.

 

[jroc74]

More context.

1. Kojima MGS Spiritual Successor - This was doing rounds in a discord I am in few days prior to SoP. The rumor was new IP being a spiritual successor to MGS alongwith a movie, which had few skeptical about it's genuineness (including myself) as to why they would announce in a SoP, and why make a film on a new IP. It did not leak anywhere else, few people caught on Kojima making a movie but nothing on a new IP. It is pretty clear after yesterday, it is a mixture of both.

2. Xbox OEM - Tom Warren has further doubled down on this after yesterday's SoP. This seems to be their intended route heading into next-gen.

3. Xbox multi-plat rumors - There are fresh rumors about this being announced soon, with 3rd week of Feb being touted as a possible date.

I've read a few of your posts about all this.

You have my attention. These rumors are looking more n more legit.

 

[icerock]

Do you have a link where I can read what he said about this?

It was posted in XboxEra Private discord by Tom. You can read it if have access to that cord or others where stuff gets shared.

Conversation started with few members discussing Jez tweet on the screenshot posted in the OP. Tom chimed in about how Jez was far too quick to shoot this down only to backpedal later, and further added how he hasn't backpedalled on OEM stuff yet, insinuating he is wrong on this point too.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah, cuz that worked out so well for the Steam Machine. Oh wait... no it didn't.

The point of manufacturing your own console is you know the exact specifications of each part and you can oversee quality control. Handing that over to multiple third parties is just a mistake. For one, when you flood the market with multiple devices by multiple manufacturers, it just confuses and oversaturates the market. And two, if devices start failing then your name is still on the line, Even though you technically went the one making them.

Yeah, eventhough the Legion and ALLY are more powerful than the Steam Deck, I'd actually rather have a steam deck.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

I watched a video of a RTX 4090 being stripped down to repaste.

The board was tiny. The thing was all metal for heat sink. I can imagine this thing going into a console size box the shape of a Series X. Just all metal and a fan.

Nope. Why do you think a Geforce is 90% heat dissipation stuff? Yeah. It gets hot. If you cram this in a series X form factor, you'd have a smouldering pile of plastic after an hour of play.
Either that or the noise levels will surpass your girlfriends hairdryer.

 

[00_Zer0]

It's not a windows PC because it will not have Windows. The console is still there for people who want the console experience. I assume some people will still build a $2000 PC and others will buy a box that just plays games for $300-600. Actually as a niche item there might be money to be made on $1k licensed Xbox's.

I think it's a bunch of misguided fantasy spurned on by a baseless rumor. So I wish you and MS goodluck on the OEM future of XBox.