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Cyberpunk 2077: DLSS 4 Patch Out Now
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
Bojji
Member
just joking
Probably will differ from scene to scene and settings to settings. Also GPU of course.
But this thing fucking works fine on worst RTX card ever:
Puscifer
Member
Nvidia is money hatting this game as PT benchmark, it makes senseBut no pssr patch
Senua
Member
I meant the opposite side.
FalconPunch
Member
The amazing thing is just by reading your sentence, I'd still be able to call you a liar even if I didn't watch the video. Your sentence makes absolutely no sense as upscaling and smoothing are not related at all. Just from your sentence, it's easy to see that you're either lying or have no idea what you're talking about. MFG, a separate technology in the DLSS4 technology suite handles frame gen while the new CNN is responsible for upscaling.LMAO
Hardware unboxed said that DLSS 4 upscaling is just a smoothing algorithm
It says it all how disconnected they are when Nvidia announces any new technology, they’re always downplaying it initially until it makes no goddamn sense.
But I bet AMD CNN model they will be
Everything HUB and other reviewers have said about MFG/Framgen in general is true. It is a frame smoothing technology that does not deliver additional performance. The frustrating part about coming into tech threads on this site is coming across post like these... Essentially, you're the prototypical "confidently wrong poster". You read something or watch something somewhere but you don't have the capability to understand the subject matter being discussed. You then misinterpret the information you just injested and then have the unfounded arrogance to speak about the subject like you're the original inventor.
It's frankly annoying to read.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I think Buggy Loop is talking about the new Transformer model for the upscaler, not MFG…
FalconPunch
Member
He claimed HUB called the DLSS upscaling a smoothing technology. I watched the HUB video and that comment was in reference to Frame Gen so Buggy Loop lied. Look at his comment, it's a cringe comment about gpu vendor wars..... It's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when both his claim was wrong and his goal was to stoke the flame of platform wars because of a perceived slight against his favorite trillion dollar company. The whole post is ridiculous.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Makes sense. If Tim or Steve were talking about MFG, then they claiming they made this statement in reference to the new transformer model is indeed incorrect.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
What exactly did you pay for then, if Jonny being the car isn't one of them.
Shaki12345
Member
I paid for everything except that. They added this functionality recently without giving players the option to NOT use it.
I don't like it when developers force me to do stuff that wasn't in the original proposition.
DirtInUrEye
Member
Well then I suppose this just demonstrated a lack of obvious critical biases then - given I incorrectly guessed you meant Nvidia. Like probably yourself, I've been watching the HUB guys for years. I hear them slagging off both manufacturers regularly.
Fortress of Regrets
Member
Transformer based DLSS is... transformative. It looks so damn good. Path-traced Cyberpunk 2077, using this in quality mode at 1440p looks god-like.
Just when other upscalers are getting better, but still not near DLSS, Nvidia drops this God Tier DLSS update and pulls very far ahead of the pack again.
If it really uses 4x the compute over the CNN model, then it shows just how underutilized the tensor cores were before. I'm seeing a really negligible performance cost on my 40-series card.
Just when other upscalers are getting better, but still not near DLSS, Nvidia drops this God Tier DLSS update and pulls very far ahead of the pack again.
If it really uses 4x the compute over the CNN model, then it shows just how underutilized the tensor cores were before. I'm seeing a really negligible performance cost on my 40-series card.
Bojji
Member
Tensor cores were mostly sleeping with old DLSS.
yamaci17
Member
I wonder what happens when you enable transformer model + frame generation on the laptop RTX 4050 or the desktop RTX 4060. since frame generation is also moved to tensor cores, I wonder what kind of impact it will have
for example 3050 can get 1080p dlss quality 73 FPS with the old model and 67 FPS with the new model. it is clear that higher tensor load causes frametime cost to be increased.. so I wonder if it possible to get frame generation while sacrificing baseline framerate. let's say from 67 FPS to 50 FPS but then it is generated to 100 FPS. it would play like 50 but look like 100 which would be fine for most 3050 users
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T4keD0wN
Member
Is the new frame gen DLL the new tensor version already or does it still work like the old one?
yamaci17
Member
no idea honestly
ThisIsMyDog
Member
Maybe im blind but... ultra perf 4K (720p), is somehow.. playable with new model? But thats on Geforce Now so i dont know how much it is a streaming fault.
TheChumpNation
Member
Just played around with this a bit. 4070 12GB, r7 5800x
Transformer version definitely looks sharper, I'd be quite happy playing at performance now. And even turning on path tracing (with settings mostly at high, with cascaded shadow range at low and some of the other shadow settings at medium) with DLSS performance at 4K mostly stayed in VRR range. I tried to chuck some grenades around and drive quickly through busy areas and it dropped to mid 40s at times.
On first glance I kinda....agree? It's seems a lot less vaseline-y but I also don't trust my eyes. And I'm not streaming.
Transformer version definitely looks sharper, I'd be quite happy playing at performance now. And even turning on path tracing (with settings mostly at high, with cascaded shadow range at low and some of the other shadow settings at medium) with DLSS performance at 4K mostly stayed in VRR range. I tried to chuck some grenades around and drive quickly through busy areas and it dropped to mid 40s at times.
On first glance I kinda....agree? It's seems a lot less vaseline-y but I also don't trust my eyes. And I'm not streaming.
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Fortress of Regrets
Member
Only the new multi-frame generation is moved to tensor cores, and it is exclusive to the 50XX series. Regular frame generation is unchanged.
yamaci17
Member
from what I know, all frame generation models are being moving to tensor cores. that is why it performs better than the old model and has reduced VRAM usage for 4000 series. at least that is what I assumed
Braag
Member
Ah, well I misunderstood.Nope.
"NVIDIA told us that the Transformer Model will offer better visuals with less shimmering and ghosting than the CNN Model. However, the Transformer Model will not be as fast as the CNN Model. This is something you should all keep in mind."
Here are some early visual benefits of DLSS 4's Transformer Model
Here are some comparisons between DLSS 4's new Transformer Model and Basic Temporal Upscalers. So, let's see what DLSS 4 will bring.www.dsogaming.com
CuteFaceJay
Member
30XX possible?
DirtInUrEye
Member
Since your eyes are the ones that matter, who cares. Don't wait to be told if it's good and just enjoy it for yourself.
Shadowplay1979
Member
I dont get it, i have a regular 4070, play cyberpunk with the highest settings possible in native and get 65-70 fps
edit:nm i guess this is 4k, i only have a 2k monitor, see no reason to go higher.
edit:nm i guess this is 4k, i only have a 2k monitor, see no reason to go higher.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
At 195W on just the CPU and GPU. Just need to get that down to 10W for the whole system and we'll break out the Obama medallion gif again.3050 ~= 2050 hmmmmmmmm
And it runs well to the point where even in performance it outclasses CNN quality
I vaguely recall a claim I did not that long ago...
HMMMMMMMMMMM
Mr Moose
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sheesh, it looks clean as fuck.incredible that 1080p path tracing can look this good!
No, you never needed them. The option is there on any RT-capable GPU. It'll just ruin your performance.
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yamaci17
Member
I'd like to clarify I didn't take these photos with photo mode capture option (that one enhances the image quality further and takes a while to render). I just hide the UI and took the screenshots as normal, so they're pretty much what I actually see in game. 1080p/dlss quality
it is on a 3070 so I get around 30-36 FPS. with dlss performance, performance increases to 45 FPS. I find both playable (and played that way changing between modes depending on the context of the game). I want to replay the game again now...
TrebleShot
Member
Added this to a few games and yeah, this shit is insane.
Looks significantly better than the original model even on perf mode.
Id argue there is no reason to be on Quality or Balanced anymore, the difference when you bump them up is negligable.
I dont think frame gen is enhanced in this DLL though.
Looks significantly better than the original model even on perf mode.
Id argue there is no reason to be on Quality or Balanced anymore, the difference when you bump them up is negligable.
I dont think frame gen is enhanced in this DLL though.
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DirtInUrEye
Member
incredible that 1080p path tracing can look this good!
It's making me curious about how 1080p upscaled to a big 4k TV might look now. We all know a bog standard 1080p res on big screens looks ass, and DLSS3 didn't help it much either. But what about the new Transformer version
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Been on PS5 for over a year ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
DirtInUrEye
Member
Anyone know if this can be manually dropped into Hogwarts?
Solarstrike
Member
Soon, DLSS and other Nvidia tech will be behind a paywall.
Nvidia stockholders:
Nvidia stockholders:
daninthemix
Member
Damn this update just makes me want to throw my Pro in the trash. Transformer model is the unkillable final boss for Sony.
DirtInUrEye
Member
If you want granular comparison, then here's your guy:
He does good FSR compared to native as well, for the paupers lurking in the shadows.
He does good FSR compared to native as well, for the paupers lurking in the shadows.
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MMaRsu
Member
Ahh okay, I tried it in CP2077 yesterday but didnt see much of a difference. Maybe something weird was going on.
The menu said I needed a 4070 or 3090 to use path tracing..
Insane
Kenpachii
Member
Xdrive05
Member
Well this settles it. Transformer based models is clearly the future of upscaling, which means it's probably the future of graphics full stop, since we're in diminishing returns of price/performance from node shrinking.
And with AMD finally joining the "we can do AI-based upscaling too!" club, and Intel Arc having their hardware based XESS, they would both be VERY smart to quickly shift over to a transformer based approach, which means they needed to start training their respective theoretical T-models like, years ago?
Nvidia's head start with all of this stuff means they are simply the winners now. They already have the market penetration that supports Transformer upscaling going all the way back to the 20 series.
This is brutally one-sided now, even more than it was previously.
And with AMD finally joining the "we can do AI-based upscaling too!" club, and Intel Arc having their hardware based XESS, they would both be VERY smart to quickly shift over to a transformer based approach, which means they needed to start training their respective theoretical T-models like, years ago?
Nvidia's head start with all of this stuff means they are simply the winners now. They already have the market penetration that supports Transformer upscaling going all the way back to the 20 series.
This is brutally one-sided now, even more than it was previously.
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Buggy Loop
Member
Wow the triggering
Who are you even. Ilien's alt account?
I saw this on Reddit and at 3 AM I didn’t go off to play 32 mins of Hardware unboxed with speakers to find the line. I interpreted it as Hardware unboxed basically saying DLSS 4 is just MFG smoothing algorithm and throws everything else improved under the bus.
A full review of blackwell and not a single mention of new ray reconstruction, upscaler transformer model. Oh let's just let buck tooth Tim handle that one.
Still the tone of Steve is as ever the same for Nvidia, petty
« dangling DLSS 4 MFG in the face of gamers as if they’re toddlers and DLSS 4 is a shiny set of keys »
Is that really the talk of an unbiased reviewer? What's that tone?
They're so pure, they want pure frames, the shiny knight against the evil Nvidia. What are they gonna do when transformer upscaler is showing things that even native is not even handling as we see now? Or that performance mode matches and beats native? Are they gonna tweak AMD's resolution until you find the same details frame by frame? I mean the frame has more details, we need pure frame to frame comparison.
Also
HUB: "We use 1080p so that the bottleneck is in the CPU for CPU testing"
Also HUB: "we do the same to test the fastest GPU there is"
Bravo HUB, Bravo.
oh look
"I didn't test 4K ray tracing performance because most title see very poor and almost always unplayable performance at 4K even with upscaling"
Seriously? in a 5090 review?
This is as clear bias as can be. Insanely bad. It's even more pathetic than I initially misinterpreted from the reddit post. The review is trash.
Steve's past is sketchy as fuck at any generation so pardon me if I doubt the good intentions of Hardware unboxed. On Ampere I caught him multiple times with stupid as fuck claims
On 3080's review, only Wolfenstein Youngblood, a whooping 50 seconds segment to go through. He even goes to say :
"So really, for the most part, it looks like the 3080 is faster at stuff like ray tracing, because it is a faster gpu, not because the 2nd gen RT cores are massively improved"
Which is total bullshit, like not even more than 5 mins research. A mere 90 Mhz base clock & 70 Mhz boost clock seperate the 3080 and the 2080 Ti, but we see a 42% increase in performances for ray tracing and 37% when considering DLSS, but again, these amazing "tech" youtubers did not bother showcasing the Wolfenstein youngblood ASYNC patch either, even though their techspot site did, showing a 54% increase in performances. Not only is their assumptions on 2nd gen RT cores wrong, but with this game being the only one benchmarked at HU, we don't really see the full potential of these new gen cores with games that will really stress it, like full path tracing games.
On 3070's review, he spends time to set the table for Nvidia's marketing on RT 2nd gen, and then says "all of that shoulld mean significantly improved performances.... "we see that for DLSS the 3070 is no better than the 2080 TI..."
Uh buddy, the 2080 Ti has 68 RT cores & 544 tensor cores, the 3070 has 46 RT cores and 184 tensor cores. Why is the narrative that the architectural change on RT cores and tensor cores are not affecting the performances?
It's one thing to not care about RT, no really, i'm fine with that, but then, don't start spreading FUD about the architectural changes if you are not going to make a deepdive and test a wide array of RT games.
6800 XT's review, "personally i care little for ray tracing support right now where i feel it's worth enabling" ok sure, a personal opinion. I also think personally that 4k monitors are fucking useless for the performance penalty when 1440p, but i assume that reviewers would want to inform everyone on all possible reasons on wanting to upgrade and dish out >700$ on a card? Then goes to showcase 2 RT games, with RT contact shadows, the bare minimum of RT effects ..
And the cherry on the cake "a new feature that i find way more exciting than ray tracing, at least in the short term, is smart access memory..", that feature that at the time of reviewing was locked to 500 series motherboards and Zen 3 only.
"So really, for the most part, it looks like the 3080 is faster at stuff like ray tracing, because it is a faster gpu, not because the 2nd gen RT cores are massively improved"
Which is total bullshit, like not even more than 5 mins research. A mere 90 Mhz base clock & 70 Mhz boost clock seperate the 3080 and the 2080 Ti, but we see a 42% increase in performances for ray tracing and 37% when considering DLSS, but again, these amazing "tech" youtubers did not bother showcasing the Wolfenstein youngblood ASYNC patch either, even though their techspot site did, showing a 54% increase in performances. Not only is their assumptions on 2nd gen RT cores wrong, but with this game being the only one benchmarked at HU, we don't really see the full potential of these new gen cores with games that will really stress it, like full path tracing games.
On 3070's review, he spends time to set the table for Nvidia's marketing on RT 2nd gen, and then says "all of that shoulld mean significantly improved performances.... "we see that for DLSS the 3070 is no better than the 2080 TI..."
Uh buddy, the 2080 Ti has 68 RT cores & 544 tensor cores, the 3070 has 46 RT cores and 184 tensor cores. Why is the narrative that the architectural change on RT cores and tensor cores are not affecting the performances?
It's one thing to not care about RT, no really, i'm fine with that, but then, don't start spreading FUD about the architectural changes if you are not going to make a deepdive and test a wide array of RT games.
6800 XT's review, "personally i care little for ray tracing support right now where i feel it's worth enabling" ok sure, a personal opinion. I also think personally that 4k monitors are fucking useless for the performance penalty when 1440p, but i assume that reviewers would want to inform everyone on all possible reasons on wanting to upgrade and dish out >700$ on a card? Then goes to showcase 2 RT games, with RT contact shadows, the bare minimum of RT effects ..
And the cherry on the cake "a new feature that i find way more exciting than ray tracing, at least in the short term, is smart access memory..", that feature that at the time of reviewing was locked to 500 series motherboards and Zen 3 only.
What the fuck are you even talking about. All that aggressivity for 1 post. Are you for real? I've yet to find a person on this forum being triggered by the numerous tech analysis like restir path tracing, or explaining path tracing, hardware analysis, with developers around here like P Panajev2001a
Buggy Loop
Member
At 195W on just the CPU and GPU. Just need to get that down to 10W for the whole system and we'll break out the Obama medallion gif again.
Mobile laptop has been tested, Famiboard peoples have downclocked it to 3 TFlops (to match docked) and it works.
DirtInUrEye
Member
I might be misremembering, but didn't Steve on HUB say Tim was working on a follow-up vid for all the RT and DLSS stuff? Steve only ever plays Fortnite, so it makes sense that he hands the visual-centric analysis to his able review partner.
FalconPunch
Member
Someone who does fluff around with half truths and mischaracterizations. If you’re going to call out someone from your arm chair, you better get the premise of your low effort post right unless I’ll call you out.
When you go out of your way to meme someone who’s providing actual value while you provide no value, then you should definitely be called out.
Oh so you were wrong in your interpretation like I initially asserted. Instead of just admitting that, you decided to double down….
This may be hard for you to understand but some people prefer to do through work instead of half assing things. Ray reconstruction is neither new and a new update to the cnn is available to 4000 series GPUs. It’s not a 5000 series exclusive feature that needs to be covered immediately in the day 1 review. It’s likely that they’ll do an in depth look as they usually do shortly.
The rest of your post perfectly encapsulates the garbage I was referring to in my earlier post. Dude I don’t care about your low effort GPU vendor wars. Nvidia is a 3 trillion dollar company which makes me money via their stocks. How HW Unboxed chooses to approach their reviews is their concern. If you don’t like it, go find another reviewer to watch. Those of us who like their content will continue to watch it.
Imagine cheering on a GPU vendor like a sports team, absolutely embarrassing.
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