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[Tiago Rodrigues]

Wtf was i thinking. Now i want that

 

[Gaiff]

Wtf was i thinking. Now i want that

I don’t think that’s the first time you’ve made that mistake either. I’m 90% sure we’ve had the exact same interaction in the past.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I don’t think that’s the first time you’ve made that mistake either. I’m 90% sure we’ve had the exact same interaction in the past.

Oh if it happened before it will happen again. See you then.

 

[Team Andromeda]

GT7 is a cross-gen title released like 2 years before the supposedly "built from the ground up" (lie) Forza Motorsport and it's better at everything and has been since day one. No need for a 700$ console as well since it's been like this since the beginning.

I remember when GT7 was being shown off when SONY believed in generations and everyone said it showed the power of the nextgen

And Forza was built from the ground up for the current gen, hence no need for a Pro model to handle realtime ray tracing for its in game gameplay never mind how Forza has a damage system GT is stuck in the past with lack of damage system.

But still does a worse job with a high-powered PC. RTGI is still MIA.

GT7 is a better looking game, period. Forza 8 was a rushed hackjob marred with technical issues at launch. The point was to illustrate that better hardware doesn’t make up for a lack of talent or competence.

Forza 8 on a 4090 should blow GT7 out of the water, but it doesn’t because Turn 10 messed up.

GT 7 isn't out on a PC and since I don't game on PC much less played FORZA on it, so let PC talk out of it.

Yes the online lobby was a bit of a mess at launch, but in-game FORZA is handling more cars on track, a car model damage system, a fully dynamic time of day and a dynamic weather system for every track in the game.
Not bad on a 4 year old £450 console.

Maybe on the PS7 Polyphony Digital might include a damage system along with dynamic weather for every track *rollseyes*

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I remember when GT7 was being shown off when SONY believed in generations and everyone said it showed the power of the nextgen

And Forza was built from the ground up for the current gen, hence no need for a Pro model to handle realtime ray tracing for its in game gameplay never mind how Forza has a damage system GT is stuck in the past with lack of damage system.


GT 7 isn't out on a PC and since I don't game on PC much less played FORZA on it, so let PC talk out of it.

Yes the online lobby was a bit of a mess at launch, but in-game FORZA is handling more cars on track, a car model damage system, a fully dynamic time of day and a dynamic weather system for every track in the game.
Not bad on a 4 year old £450 console.

Maybe on the PS7 Polyphony Digital might include a damage system along with dynamic weather for every track *rollseyes*

You really chose to die on this hill huh...

 

[PandaOk]

Every single exclusive game out there is "leaving money on the table" for being exclusive.


GT7 is a cross-gen title released like 2 years before the supposedly "built from the ground up" (lie) Forza Motorsport and it's better at everything and has been since day one. No need for a 700$ console as well since it's been like this since the beginning.

MotorStorm 1 is still the best

 

[Unknown?]

Forza doesn't need a £700 console to handle Ray Tracing in game and as for your cross gen nonsense.

Come back to me when GT gets 24 on track , with damage models and dynamic weather and time of day for each abs every track in the game .

Not the baked in effect we get for GT 7 handful of tracks ..

Not that GT 7 is much of a leap over Forza RT

I needed a good laugh today, thanks!

 

[PandaOk]

Rather curious why you would think I would make something up that I can so easily prove?





Easy enough to replicate, just take your car and drive through a tunnel. RT is causing PSSR to fizzle like mad. Disabling RT and just using frame rate + PSSR is a fantastic image.

Digital Foundry, while good, are not flawless supermen incapable of overlooking something. They missed the PSSR artefacts that occur in Stellar Blade with grass in later levels. They missed the severe ghosting DLSS has in TLOU Part 1 on distant objects. It is obvious they certainly missed this.

Not that what you’re showing isn’t happening but I just tested the tunnel on Tokyo Expressway with zero issues with full RT mode. If you’d be inclined to walk me through uploading videos via DMs or whatnot I can show you. Perhaps this is an issue only with specific maps or conditions.

 

[CrustyBritches]

looks way worse than 120fps pssr off graphics/rt mode

I'll have to try it again.

 

[XXL]

MotorStorm 1 is still the best

I want some VR versions of Motorstorm. Pacific Rift would be nuts in VR.

 

[sachos]

But sachos sachos telling me to watch a video I've already seen and having tested for 4 hours. When I'm only trying to share my findings. Its just not worth the shite when trying to help.

Dude, sorry if you took it the wrong way. Im just trying to help you get the best image.
I missed you did ALL your testing in cockpit view, so its possible that PSSR turns on RT in that camera view not only in RT mode but also Perf mode.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You really chose to die on this hill huh...

I go up the hill , thanks all the same

I needed a good laugh today, thanks!

No problem Hiroki

 

[ABnormal]

I want some VR versions of Motorstorm. Pacific Rift would be nuts in VR.

My wet dream: Pacific Rift PS5 remake with PSVR2 support.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

I go up the hill , thanks all the same

No problem Hiroki

FM is much better than at launch but it´s still wack imo. It´s a tier below, all things considered.

Those things you listed are actually good but they have important caveats.

 

[Insane Metal]

GT7 keeps on showing why it's amazing.

 

[King Dazzar]

Dude, sorry if you took it the wrong way. Im just trying to help you get the best image.
I missed you did ALL your testing in cockpit view, so its possible that PSSR turns on RT in that camera view not only in RT mode but also Perf mode.

All good mate. I checked it again today. And same results. But I think we're focused on two different aspects. The RT I'm seeing in Prioritise Frame Rate/PSSR On. Is on my own cars paint, which I'm definitely seeing in cockpit view. But I never see any car reflections in mine or other vehicles paint, as you do in the dedicated RT mode. I'm seeing solely track RT reflections, that's all. My view is, that there's differing RT going on depending on which mode you select.

 

[Zathalus]

Not that what you’re showing isn’t happening but I just tested the tunnel on Tokyo Expressway with zero issues with full RT mode. If you’d be inclined to walk me through uploading videos via DMs or whatnot I can show you. Perhaps this is an issue only with specific maps or conditions.

Use something highly reflective like the SLR McLaren. It’s not everything (although the dash is almost always bad). The track is High Speed Ring in Japan, the tunnel section.

 

[PandaOk]

Use something highly reflective like the SLR McLaren. It’s not everything (although the dash is almost always bad). The track is High Speed Ring in Japan, the tunnel section.

I’ll try that combination. I’ve gone through Tokyo Expressway and Trial Mountain so far, but only with Honda S800 ‘66 and Shelby Cobra ‘66.

 

[Senua]

you're cherry picking a case in photo mode. yes DF even highlighted artefacts, but when you're playing the game in most scenarios it isn't severe

You're such a tit sometimes Jamesy boy

 

[sachos]

All good mate. I checked it again today. And same results. But I think we're focused on two different aspects. The RT I'm seeing in Prioritise Frame Rate/PSSR On. Is on my own cars paint, which I'm definitely seeing in cockpit view. But I never see any car reflections in mine or other vehicles paint, as you do in the dedicated RT mode. I'm seeing solely track RT reflections, that's all. My view is, that there's differing RT going on depending on which mode you select.

Oh, i see now. What about the light reflections inside the cockpit like the one you can see in Vick gifs? Are those present there? I think that is the key feature of RT Mode/PSSR On that looks too good to miss haha.

 

[King Dazzar]

Oh, i see now. What about the light reflections inside the cockpit like the one you can see in Vick gifs? Are those present there? I think that is the key feature of RT Mode/PSSR On that looks too good to miss haha.

Unfortunately the cockpit on the 2016 MX5 I'm using isnt any good for testing cockpit lighting specifically as it doesn't have a reflective cockpit with the trim being matt black over most of it. So I wouldn't like to say as its not showing it well even in the RT mode. And I've stayed with that one vehicle to keep consistency with my testing. But it does have a great bit of exterior paint work that does come into the interior and goes all along the top of the drive side right hand door by the window - which is showing the RT brilliantly. Its super smooth and very detailed. Much better than the cube maps.

 

[Team Andromeda]

FM is much better than at launch but it´s still wack imo. It´s a tier below, all things considered.

Those things you listed are actually good but they have important caveats.

I find the looby side still not great and hate with a passion the menu system and its look, this is an area GT 7 is so much better looking at, but I think both games have their good and bad points.
One can't make a true 1 to 1 comparison on graphics, since FORZA is looking to handle different things under the hood while GT7 is more focused on other aera's

It gets no credit but my fav racer this gen is GRID Legends and I found that game so much better than either FORZA or GT7

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Those games can, and have been, compared. And the verdict was given: GT7 looks better.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-gran-turismo-7-vs-forza-motorsport

 

[Senua]

Those games can, and have been, compared. And the verdict was given: GT7 looks better.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-gran-turismo-7-vs-forza-motorsport

It's still subjective. I think GT7 looks better overall, definitely more cohesive. More natural lighting and way better car models. Forza has more detailed track environments. RTAO looks great in Forza too, and when they finally release RTGI it'll be a big step up in fidelity.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It's still subjective. I think GT7 looks better overall, definitely more cohesive. More natural lighting and way better car models. Forza has more detailed track environments. RTAO looks great in Forza too, and when they finally release RTGI it'll be a big step up in fidelity.

Of course it's subjective, but that wasn't the point of contention.

That said, that's a pre-Pro comparison. Pro version? To my eyes is unquestionably better and it looks like DF agrees.

 

[Senua]

Of course it's subjective, but that wasn't the point of contention.

That said, that's a pre-Pro comparison. Pro version? To my eyes is unquestionably better and it looks like DF agrees.

Yea I'm talking about base PS5 version, even that I feel has better presentation overall than Forza Motorsport maxed on PC, which I have played quite a lot.

 

[kevboard]

DF also missed some severe iq issues with FF7 Rebirth ..such as low res shadows and the insane degree of pop in

PSSR is not performing nearly as well as I'd hoped coming out of a console designed around it....2 reasons: the high frametime cost resulting in devs often having to use low internal resolutions and the nasty aliasing found on fine edges and grid patterns ....actually I'll add a 3rd which is the way pssr reacts with noisy RT reflections. We're in a situation where not only are we not seeing the promise of "near 4k like image" at 60 fps but we're not seeing the 2-3x RT improvements in most games again, due to not having enough overheard after applying expensive PSSR

I don't know how Sony will be able to get over the hurdle of PSSRs cost but I really hope they figure it out ...every really demanding current gen game we have patched for Pro is coming well short of expectations-sh2, aw2, sw outlaws, and Jedi in performance mode. Just learned of another one, Hogwarts Legacy, the new Fidelity mode looks worse now than the previous one did on base PS5

the 45% raster performance increase was really the bare minimum viable target for them it seems.
it's really cutting it close to make PSSR work.

so far I definitely feel like the PS4 Pro was way more successful in fulfilling its promise (well at least during the first year or so, before every dev just stopped using CBR and only did lazy ports)

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I needed a good laugh today, thanks!

I was disappointed with Forza but nothing ge said is wrong

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I find the looby side still not great and hate with a passion the menu system and its look, this is an area GT 7 is so much better looking at, but I think both games have their good and bad points.
One can't make a true 1 to 1 comparison on graphics, since FORZA is looking to handle different things under the hood while GT7 is more focused on other aera's

It gets no credit but my fav racer this gen is GRID Legends and I found that game so much better than either FORZA or GT7

Grid is wayy too arcadey car is glued to the ground.There's no risk vs reward with the handling where you have to balance the throttle with braking or losing control of your car ...i can only see this game appealing to newbs of the genre no offense.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

the 45% raster performance increase was really the bare minimum viable target for them it seems.
it's really cutting it close to make PSSR work.

so far I definitely feel like the PS4 Pro was way more successful in fulfilling its promise (well at least during the first year or so, before every dev just stopped using CBR and only did lazy ports)

PS5 Pro has already fulfilled its promise(s) — better looking games at higher framerates. That some companies have struggled with this doesn't make that any less true, especially when the list of games with show stopping issues is much lower than games that don't have those problems.

 

[Fafalada]

It's really cutting it close to make PSSR work.

I'm not seeing how.
If you want to take perf at face value, even at 60hz, 45% = 6-7ms, so with PSSR that's still 4-5ms extra rendering time.
Internet has latched onto the % from the start because it sounded"low enough" compared to ps4 pro 130% paper spec(which generally didn't even come close to in real world).
If it's really "eaten away" by pssr (which also had quoted cost in the same exact source that 45% comes from), then the number is much lower, but then we're contradicting the original source, so the whole 45% is moot.

so far I definitely feel like the PS4 Pro was way more successful in fulfilling its promise

At the same point in time, ps4pro had all 1st party games run between 1272p(1800cb) and 1440p, and one 1/4 VRS upscale to 4k( so 1080p shaded pixels).
From 1st party perspective at least, it was doing worse (especially taking paper spec into account).

 

[SkyHighTrees]

You can compare GT Sport PS4 Pro patch to this one.

That had nothing other than better VR quality and 1800cb resolution, *nothing else*.

Also, VR kept the same boring 1v1 mode.

 

[CrustyBritches]

looks way worse than 120fps pssr off graphics/rt mode

I'm still seeing a ton of aliasing in the RT/Graphics, 120fps, PSSR 'Off' combo. PSSR is really good at antialiasing. Maybe the best out of modern upscaling techniques. Naturally there's tradeoffs with everything.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Grid is wayy too arcadey car is glued to the ground.There's no risk vs reward with the handling where you have to balance the throttle with braking or losing control of your car ...i can only see this game appealing to newbs of the genre no offense.

Grid is fun and also has some of the best AI seen in a racer for decades which makes the game and where the AI in FORZA and GT 7 is lacking

I do agree the handling model takes a little getting use too mind, but at least you tried it.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

If only those cockpit reflections worked in the non pssr Resolution/rt mode this update would be perfect. Oh well, I was wrong about this not being a good patch
...my first thoughts were based on the pssr/resolution rt so i was a little bummed to see aliasing but didn't realize you can disable pssr and still get rt as well as keep the pristine image quality it has always had.

Someone here was mentioning there might be improved lods too which would be nice

Oh, i see now. What about the light reflections inside the cockpit like the one you can see in Vick gifs? Are those present there? I think that is the key feature of RT Mode/PSSR On that looks too good to miss haha.

 

[Emet_bp]

I remember when GT7 was being shown off when SONY believed in generations and everyone said it showed the power
Yes the online lobby was a bit of a mess at launch, but in-game FORZA is handling more cars on track, a car model damage system, a fully dynamic time of day and a dynamic weather system for every track in the game.
Not bad on a 4 year old £450 console.

Maybe on the PS7 Polyphony Digital might include a damage system along with dynamic weather for every track *rollseyes*

I don't know where are you getting this from.

Forza has 24 cars on track, GT7 has 20, that is whole 4 more AI cars (where every AI car is fully detailed, not the 2005 level quality ultra low LOD like in every Forza). What a "huge" difference
Also AI is on a different level in favor of GT7 (of course at launch it was also very bad).

Damage is very basic in both games but yes, slightly better in FM.

Dynamic time of day is present in both games (and was on some tracks since GT5 on PS3), not just in FM like you are implying. It is also more fluid in GT7, where in FM it "jumps" (you can see it by how shadows move).

Dynamic weather is also present on every track in GT7 (btw. as you know there are a lot more tracks there), also with dynamic wind simulation.
The difference is that rain is not present on every track in GT7, but at least where it is, it is properly made with puddles and drying line, not just cheap and fake looking shiny tarmack (that looks like was smeared with some kind of jello) with just slightly reduced overall grip.

 

[Type_Raver]

Excellent!

Now hurry up and release it on PC please.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

Grid is fun and also has some of the best AI seen in a racer for decades which makes the game and where the AI in FORZA and GT 7 is lacking

I do agree the handling model takes a little getting use too mind, but at least you tried it.

The sophy AI in gt 7 is honest to god the best AI in a racing game yet, imo. You should try that out.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

I don't know where are you getting this from.

Forza has 24 cars on track, GT7 has 20, that is whole 4 more AI cars (where every AI car is fully detailed, not the 2005 level quality ultra low LOD like in every Forza). What a "huge" difference
Also AI is on a different level in favor of GT7 (of course at launch it was also very bad).

Damage is very basic in both games but yes, slightly better in FM.

Dynamic time of day is present in both games (and was on some tracks since GT5 on PS3), not just in FM like you are implying. It is also more fluid in GT7, where in FM it "jumps" (you can see it by how shadows move).

Dynamic weather is also present on every track in GT7 (btw. as you know there are a lot more tracks there), also with dynamic wind simulation.
The difference is that rain is not present on every track in GT7, but at least where it is, it is properly made with puddles and drying line, not just cheap and fake looking shiny tarmack (that looks like was smeared with some kind of jello) with just slightly reduced overall grip.

This is all true, had forgotten about it. To me the most shocking thing is the physics on the rain, it's basically the same.

Also having 24 cars is a little bit more fun, but those cars having awful LOD compared to GT's decent AI LOD, it's a wrap honestly.

 

[Team Andromeda]

The sophy AI in gt 7 is honest to god the best AI in a racing game yet, imo. You should try that out.

I have a PS 5 Pro and GT 7

I don't know where are you getting this from.

Forza has 24 cars on track, GT7 has 20, that is whole 4 more AI cars (where every AI car is fully detailed, not the 2005 level quality ultra low LOD like in every Forza). What a "huge" difference
Also AI is on a different level in favor of GT7 (of course at launch it was also very bad).

It's quite simple. I get it from owning both games and also both a PS5 and Series X.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

This is all true, had forgotten about it. To me the most shocking thing is the physics on the rain, it's basically the same.

Also having 24 cars is a little bit more fun, but those cars having awful LOD compared to GT's decent AI LOD, it's a wrap honestly.

Easy wrap. It was already an easy win for GT7 before. With the Pro, this isn’t even a discussion anymore.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

You dont get RT in performance mode mate. Its cube maps.

The game has a rare bug where RT will fail and it resorts to cube maps. Happened to me a few days ago and it looks exactly like performance mode.

The reflections change when its in performance mode. The way they bend over the car. Its obvious when u change back and forth.

You want RT. Put it in RT/Resolution mode.

That's also exactly what PD has written in the settings so I'm going to take their word for it over Kings

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I have a PS 5 Pro and GT 7

It's good that you have it. You have reached the first stage. Maybe now try to play against sophy?

 

[Thief1987]

a fully dynamic time of day

It's not as "dynamic" as you think it is, it's just switching between different lighting presets, there is no dynamic TOD lighting system.

 

[Team Andromeda]

It's not as "dynamic" as you think it is, it's just switching between different lighting presets, there is no dynamic TOD lighting system.

Only it is and a hell of a lot more dynamic that GT7

GT 7 is basically what GT Sport should have been on the PS4.

It's good that you have it. You have reached the first stage. Maybe now try to play against sophy?

I'm 14 hrs in, if only for it being one of the few games worth playing on my PSVR2. Not that makes the slightest bit of difference to GRID having better AI right after the start

 

[vkbest]

see, I'm not sure if these are jokes that I don't get... because, anything else would be even more confusing.
for one, the PSSR 120hz mode thst renders internally at 1080p runs slower than the native 1800p TAA 120hz mode, which shows A MASSIVE performance hit for PSSR, like enormous even I'd say.
and at 60hz the resolution difference between the TAA and the PSSR mode is so massive, that it would be kinda ridiculous if PSSR wouldn't be faster.

PSSR is using 2ms for post processing, 120fps = 8 ms every frame. It's pretty easy to understand why PSSR currently is not recommended to 120hz modes.

If Sony leak about AI accelerator being capable to 300tops its true, means PSSR is 3x slower in a 3x more powerful accelerator than a Nvidia 2060 DLSS2. Sony have huge margin to improve

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

Only it is and a hell of a lot more dynamic that GT7

GT 7 is basically what GT Sport should have been on the PS4.

I'm 14 hrs in, if only for it being one of the few games worth playing on my PSVR2. Not that makes the slightest bit of difference to GRID having better AI right after the start

Grid has better AI than sophy? Man, I want what you are smoking.

Also, nice defense for forza, you should know ms has ended it's ambassador program.

 

[Emet_bp]

Only it is and a hell of a lot more dynamic that GT7

GT 7 is basically what GT Sport should have been on the PS4.

I'm 14 hrs in, if only for it being one of the few games worth playing on my PSVR2. Not that makes the slightest bit of difference to GRID having better AI right after the start

You are again talking nonsense with stupid sentences without any argumentation and even didn't respond to my previous post (but how could you? againg fighting against reality?).

 

[SweetTooth]

You really chose to die on this hill huh...

Im enjoying those last gasps of life from hardcore Xbox fans..soon they will fade out like Xbox

 

[K' Dash]