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[Kacho]

Using CCU for a singleplayer game makes no sense.
All that's needed, is a sale.

CCU is more important for live service fames, where the stat actually matters.

Using CCUs makes perfect sense. A higher CCU = more sales. A single player game with 50k CCU sells considerable less than a game with 250k CCU. Common sense.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Using CCUs makes perfect sense. A higher CCU = more sales. A single player game with 50k CCU sells considerable less than a game with 250k CCU. Common sense.

No shit.

But Ghost sold ~800K. How many times people beat the game or how many hours they spend on it is irrelevant.

For a live service game, they actually want people to keep playing continuously, as that's the foundation of the business-model.
For sp much less so.

 

[winjer]

Using CCU for a singleplayer game makes no sense.
All that's needed, is a sale.

CCU is more important for live service fames, where the stat actually matters.

Sales correlate with concurrent players. So it's a good indication of how a game is performing.
The difference is that with a live service, it's expected for those numbers to remain high. While with a SP game, it's expected that the numbers fall off as more and more people finish playing the game.

 

[SlimySnake]

Did I miss something? Why does GAF hate Horizon so much? Is it just because they made Aloy’s personality kind of insufferable in Forbidden West?

I don’t recall a hate boner like this after HZD.

Because HZD was a great game. HFW not so much. The sequel didnt innovate at all and regressed in some places. There are plenty of reasons why gamers have turned on Horizon:

- Retconned Aloy to be a lesbian after setting up not one but two straight romances in the first game.
- Retconned Aloy to be fat and ugly. Did do a 180 after the backlash but the damage was already done.
- Retconned Aloy to be an angry and aloof boss bitch after she literally rallied various different tribes with her undying optimism in the first game.
- it's been 7 years since the game came out. People are over it. not every franchise deserves a trilogy. Not every franchise deserves spinoffs. People want something new.

 

[TintoConCasera]

GoT sold 800+K.
Spiderman sold 1.5+M.

Are those numbers good or bad? Don't seem so bad to me in which case I don't know what you are complaining about. Seems like they are making some nice extra buck out of those late ports.

Edit:

In fact, it seems PC releases are performing worse as more release.

Are you implying there is a correlation between "ports released so far" and "unita sold by the last port"?

If Sony is smart, they'd make a BB Remake exclusively for PS6, just like they made Demon's Souls Remake PS5-exclusive.

You guys can keep that one.

 

[DonF]

I love Horizon, I love good Lego games and I have little to no interest in this games right now.

thats a weird statement, why is it that you are not interested in this game?

 

[Kacho]

No shit.

But Ghost sold ~800K. How many times people beat the game or how many hours they spend on it is irrelevant.

For a live service game, they actually want people to keep playing continuously, as that's the foundation of the business-model.
For sp much less so.

If it’s no shit then stop saying it doesn’t make sense. Single player games sales are front loaded. Peak CCUs happen at launch when the bulk of sales occur. It’s a valuable metric because of that.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

How is in Nintendo switch?

I will take bets right now that this game will sell 5x on Switch versus PS5.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I love this. PlayStation has to heavily consider the PC audience when greenlighting future games.

No more of this kids BS.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sales correlate with concurrent players. So it's a good indication of how a game is performing.

Yes, we both had come to that conclusion as that's a given. It doesn't need to be said.

The difference is that with a live service, it's expected for those numbers to remain high. While with a SP game, it's expected that the numbers fall off as more and more people finish playing the game.

Bolded doesn't matter, because a sale is a sale. That's it.

Are those numbers good or bad? Don't seem so bad to me in which case I don't know what you are complaining about. Seems like they are making some nice extra buck out of those late ports.

I'm not complaining at all. Why would I care.

I'm just saying it would be funny if Sony draws a different conclusion from all the data than the PC fanatics.

It was a purely hypothetical tongue-in-cheek comment.

Are you implying there is a correlation between "ports released so far" and "unita sold by the last port"?

Not necessarily, just something that caught my eye as I was looking up the numbers.
I don't keep track of those things.

Anyway, I'm done. Idc either way, as long as I have games to play.

 

[XXL]

thats a weird statement, why is it that you are not interested in this game?

I have way too much stuff to play and the gameplay looks average.

The game is beautiful though.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If it’s no shit then stop saying it doesn’t make sense. Single player games sales are front loaded. Peak CCUs happen at launch when the bulk of sales occur. It’s a valuable metric because of that.

It doesn't make sense to keep referring to CCU for a SP game, because only sales numbers matter for those.

You sell one for €40 or whatever and that's it.
No matter if people spend 200+ hours on it or don't even boot it up at all.

 

[winjer]

Bolded doesn't matter, because a sale is a sale. That's it.

Are you insinuating that millions of people bought this game and never played it?

We actually know how many people haven't played it yet, despite having bought it.
At this moment, 91.5% of all gamers on PC have the first achievement.
So we know that there are not many people, who bought the game and are still to play it.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I imagine this will be a Christmas stocking game for kids into Lego. Can't see the hardcore crowd jumping on this, it didn't review amazingly either so that will have a bit of an impact. Another Lego game about a pretty generic science fiction game.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

BRING. BACK. KILLZONE.

Jesus, when was the last time a Sony first-party studio made an FPS?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Are you insinuating that millions of people bought this game and never played it?

How do you even come to that conclusion?

We actually know how many people haven't played it yet, despite having bought it.
At this moment, 91.5% of all gamers on PC have the first achievement.
So we know that there are not many people, who bought the game and are still to play it.

Cool, but I said nothing about that.

 

[Hookshot]

The first 10 seconds.

 

[winjer]

How do you even come to that conclusion?

Cool, but I said nothing about that.

Why are you talking about that CCU don't matter, if a sale is a sale.
The reality is that the vast majority of people who buy a game, play it right away.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Why are you talking about that CCU don't matter, if a sale is a sale.
The reality is that the vast majority of people who buy a game, play it right away.

Yeah, and where did I say they don't?

 

[winjer]

Yeah, and where did I say they don't?

You said this:

Sales correlate with concurrent players. So it's a good indication of how a game is performing.
The difference is that with a live service, it's expected for those numbers to remain high. While with a SP game, it's expected that the numbers fall off as more and more people finish playing the game.

Bolded doesn't matter, because a sale is a sale. That's it.

But the reality is that CCU matter when a SP game is launched.
That is when most people play the game. And it correlates with a game's success.

 

[midnightAI]

Because HZD was a great game. HFW not so much. The sequel didnt innovate at all and regressed in some places. There are plenty of reasons why gamers have turned on Horizon:

- Retconned Aloy to be a lesbian after setting up not one but two straight romances in the first game.
- Retconned Aloy to be fat and ugly. Did do a 180 after the backlash but the damage was already done.
- Retconned Aloy to be an angry and aloof boss bitch after she literally rallied various different tribes with her undying optimism in the first game.
- it's been 7 years since the game came out. People are over it. not every franchise deserves a trilogy. Not every franchise deserves spinoffs. People want something new.

Can't agree with you here, FW is better in every single way for me except for maybe story (and I'll repeat myself here but I'm all about the gameplay more than story, no game has an amazing story really)

Going through ZD Remastered again just hammers that home to me, sooo many things have been improved in FW and I wish were in ZD but I understand why they aren't there (I really do miss the shield glider and flying mounts)

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But the reality is that CCU matter when a SP game is launched.
That is when most people play the game. And it correlates with a game's success.

people playing the game is a given.

Do you really think companies care if you play a game you bought or not? You bought it, that's the bottomline.

"CCU was 200K"

Cool, sales were 800K.

 

[winjer]

people playing the game is a given.

Do you really think companies care if you play a game you bought or not? You bought it, that's the bottomline.

"CCU was 200K"

Cool, sales were 800K. That's the bottom-line.

But that never happens. The percentage of people that don't play the game right away is in the single digit.

 

[poppabk]

people playing the game is a given.

Do you really think companies care if you play a game you bought or not? You bought it, that's the bottomline.

"CCU was 200K"

Cool, sales were 800K. That's the bottom-line.

Right sales number would be better, but in their absence we have to try and extrapolate from CCU's.

 

[Generic]

Switch version will save it!

 

[SmokedMeat]

When it comes to PC, and this is no exaggeration - If I want a Lego game I can drop $3 on Avengers/Star Wars/DC/Jurassic Park/Lord of the Rings/etc.. and play. And I wouldn’t because I’ve got around 7 Lego games and only ever bought one.
Lego games are fun, but there’s already a trillion of them, and they all do arguably the same thing.

To drop $60 on any Lego game, or Lego Horizon, you’ve got to be a big fan. This should be a budget game at a budget game price, but maybe that’s just me.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But that never happens. The percentage of people that don't play the game right away is in the single digit.

And I never said otherwise. How do you even come up with the idea that I was implying that?

That's some mighty weird reading comprehension there.

Right sales number would be better, but in their absence we have to try and extrapolate from CCU's.

What absence?
GoT sold ~800K. I provided a link.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Imagine a Venn diagram:
- PC gamers
- Lego game fans
- Horizon fans

Seems like the overlap between those three would not be all that big.


BTW what is the appeal of the LEGO games anyway? I’ve tried a few of them, I like the idea of them, but I get so bored almost immediately. My kids are the same. The only one that we all enjoyed was Lego City Undercover.

 

[Fake]

Switch version will save it!

 

[reinking]

What Steam numbers were people expecting for a Lego game based on a console game character? I am not expecting it to be at the top of the charts but I really had no expectation that it would do well on PC.

 

[poppabk]

What absence?
GoT sold ~800K. I provided a link.

But we aren't talking about GoT, we are talking about Lego Horizon, and this is the only info we have.

 

[Punished Miku]

I'd buy any Dual Shocks you need and renew PS+ now.

 

[TintoConCasera]

what is the appeal of the LEGO games anyway?

Comfy, simple fun for both kids and stoners.

They have a nice sense of humor as well.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But we aren't talking about GoT, we are talking about Lego Horizon, and this is the only info we have.

We were having a discussion about GoT when we were talking about the CCU.

 

[analog_future]

What Steam numbers were people expecting for a Lego game based on a console game character? I am not expecting it to be at the top of the charts but I really had no expectation that it would do well on PC.

I don't think anyone was expecting it to be top of the charts, but as mentioned earlier, 602 concurrent users is even less than Concord, and about 0.8% percent of the most recent big Lego game (Skywalker Saga).


This is looking like a disaster any way you slice it.

 

[diffusionx]

Are those numbers good or bad? Don't seem so bad to me in which case I don't know what you are complaining about. Seems like they are making some nice extra buck out of those late ports.

The PS ports have not been as successful on PC as I would have thought. The first couple like HZD and GOW were huge hits but the drop off has been noticeable, telling me that the novelty has worn off. Spiderman 2018 didn't do as well as I would have thought - the game was a monster hit on PS4, one of the best selling games, but it was just meh on PC. Ragnarok also I think hasn't done that amazing.

If I was Sony I would rethink things, you're burning the value of the platform you built over decades for short term cash. A game like Helldivers 2 or Concord (LMAO), yea, ok, you need users and PC gamers like these games, but I don't think the appetite for these games on PC is that high.

 

[TintoConCasera]

telling me that the novelty has worn off

I don't think it's a matter of novely, but a matter of the quality of the games on offer.

GOW is a great game. GOW: R well, I haven't played it but word of mouth is that it's more of a slog.

Meanwhile a day 1 release of a good videogame (Helldivers) does wonders and sells nice. I think there's a lesson there.

 

[diffusionx]

Because HZD was a great game. HFW not so much. The sequel didnt innovate at all and regressed in some places. There are plenty of reasons why gamers have turned on Horizon:

- Retconned Aloy to be a lesbian after setting up not one but two straight romances in the first game.
- Retconned Aloy to be fat and ugly. Did do a 180 after the backlash but the damage was already done.
- Retconned Aloy to be an angry and aloof boss bitch after she literally rallied various different tribes with her undying optimism in the first game.
- it's been 7 years since the game came out. People are over it. not every franchise deserves a trilogy. Not every franchise deserves spinoffs. People want something new.

FW was the opportunity they had to turn Horizon into a massive franchise and they blew it. Story, writing, characters, was all bad and a huge step below the first. The gameplay had some nice iterations but Aloy was so unlikeable and the whole game was just like this parade of annoying freaks. To make a franchise, you need cool characters people like and an intriguing story, FW had neither.

Ragnarok was kind of the same thing. Sony hasn't done well with these sequels this gen, for whatever reason.

 

[Varteras]

Massive and growing

 

[poodaddy]

Where are they then?

This game isn't going to sell well anywhere.

Like I said in the review thread, complete waste of time. Herman is high off his own supply.

This, fuckin this, Jesus Christ this. I've been saying it for some time, why is Hulst still in charge? How can someone rack up so many misses and still have a job. Sony is very forgiving as of late....maybe a bit too much.

 

[drotahorror]

BRING. BACK. KILLZONE.

LEGO Killzone Adventures.

 

[Kacho]

What Steam numbers were people expecting for a Lego game based on a console game character? I am not expecting it to be at the top of the charts but I really had no expectation that it would do well on PC.

A few thousand at least. 600 CCU is dreadful.

 

[Dorago]

Bums me out because Sony finally made another system (after the Vita) that wasn't a cheap, cost cutting piece of junk.

Yet their multi billion dollar studios forgot how to make video games (rather nobody in a leadership role can do so.)

It's not just the ideologues, it's the shift from "growth" to "mitigate risk", culture clashes between East and West, the explosion of gambling/social engineering systems in every online game, and the fact that there are no children being born in advanced nations making the average a gamer 40 year old who doesn't want anyting new.

Whatever, the whole reason I bought a PS5 was for Death Stranding 2, and here I wait until its arrival.

 

[Loboxxx]

People keep asking for variety and more AA among so many mega blockbusters, but it is clear that day 1 only buys one type of game, the AAA with mega graphics.

PS. For the record, I'm not thrilled with how they're burning Horizon's IP with a thousand games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I don't think it's a matter of novely, but a matter of the quality of the games on offer.

GOW is a great game. GOW: R well, I haven't played it but word of mouth is that it's more of a slog.

Meanwhile a day 1 release of a good videogame (Helldivers) does wonders and sells nice. I think there's a lesson there.

Those games games have no problem selling on Playstation though.
That's why Sony execs keep emphasizing that Playstation is the core of the business (in reference to their consoles).

 

[Kacho]

People keep asking for variety and more AA among so many mega blockbusters, but it is clear that day 1 only buys one type of game, the AAA with mega graphics.

PS. For the record, I'm not thrilled with how they're burning Horizon's IP with a thousand games.

That's not true. Metaphor and Dragon Quest 3 are doing very well.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Even GoW Ragnarok kinda bombed on Steam. There is no second blue ocean on PC. The customers who buy their games on PC are also replacing their Playstation with a high end PC. They are doomed to fail if they follow MS strategy.

This is so unbelievably wrong.

The second blue ocean resides in the game types that PC gamers like.

Helldivers 2 shows us that. Every single one of PlayStations studios needs to start making games for the PC and console audience, not just the console audience.

 

[TintoConCasera]

People keep asking for variety and more AA among so many mega blockbusters, but it is clear that day 1 only buys one type of game, the AAA with mega graphics.

Dude what. Indies and AA sell very nicely, at least on PC. This game is bottom of the barrel when compared to most AA releases and should not be taken as ane example of well those games can sell, at all.

Those games games have no problem selling on Playstation though.

Yeah, as day 1 titles with lots of marketing and hype behind them. Shouldn't be a surprise to see them sell way less a year or two after they've released when all the hype is gone.

Again, Helldivers 2 is a nice example of how well a day 1 release can do on Steam.

 

[Crayon]

Holy shit. Don't LEGO games do pretty good?

 

[bender]

Had it broken 1,000 CCU on day one, a surprise release of Bloodborne was planned for December 10th.