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[Haunted]

Squadron 42 is the reason why I'm excited for Star Citizen.

Everyone pouring hundreds and thousands of Euros into their MMO ships is financing my new Chris Roberts space sim singleplayer campaign, the spiritual successor to Wing Commander Prophecy.

imokwiththis.jpg

 

[Nzyme32]

My point is that the only reason I'd consider this cast a justifiable expense, is if it brought attention to the project that would otherwise not exist. I first understood this announcement as a PR play. But that doesn't make sense, since the overwhelming majority of people simply cannot play this game next year without buying new hardware. I'm sure the game is perfectly enjoyable at the lower end of the spectrum, but even that isn't currently in the hands of most potential players.

Do you honestly believe that in the next year, millions of people are going to decide to purchase a new desktop PC? When most of their computing use is adequately covered by a phone, tablet, and laptop? I'm sure the overall PC market is growing, but not at that sort of rate.

I don't think it's a purely 'console mentality' (whatever that term means), to assume that assembling the highest profile cast in the history of gaming is a means of growing awareness. That's been the rationale behind most 'big name' castings.

I understand getting a star to do mocap in your cinematic game, but this is an extremely high-profile collection of talent. It can't have come cheap, and if that cost isn't recoverable through sales directly attributed to that cast - that feels like a weird investment. Especially for such a mechanics-heavy game, that most people aren't even playing for the story. That's the source of my confusion.

Again with the "millions of people" having to buy it. This isn't an early term goal or even necessarily a year long goal. This is a game where virtual ships worth hundreds of dollars are selling. It's a game with tons of opertunities for long term growth and in game payments. The only way people part with money is similar to Dota, where the items needs to be meaningful for the player and add value for others that play along side them.

Again this is warped console like logic of how a game should sell, last, develop, be monetised, its growth, its audience etc. I don't think any conversation I make will change your mode of thinking

 

[Aselith]

You should watch Lost in Space.

Hope you're not saying that's a bad performance?

 

[Yopis]

Yep. Now they just have tons more of money, so more and better actors.

There are actually "movie" videos on YT of the Wing Commanders. 2 hours of cheese FMV scenes each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qYItb4g6qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=Fc7xZulpJGI

Most expensive game ever at the time.

 

[Mushroomer25]

It's a $91 million dollar project at this point, that's goal is to make a no compromising PC video game, spending an large amount on the cast of half of their game is an entirely justifiable thing to do. The SQ42 part is the part of the game that will most easily be used to attract new players, it's big, it's a spectacle and it's most easily explainable and recognizable to new players. If hiring big name actors is what will help pull some people into buying the game once it's released than that's a win for all people involved.

You say are millions of people going to buy a PC next year when their computing needs are covered by a phone or tablet... absolutely not. If said person simply wants a PC for computing then Star Citizen isn't for that person, what I do believe is that thousands maybe even tens of thousands of people will be building PC's to play this game, and will continue for years to come as the game continues to grow.

The console mentality that he is referring to that a game needs to sell gang busters day one until the new hotness comes out then sales drop, PC gaming is different than that, games have much longer legs than the typical console game. Slow and steady growth is the way I see this game is going, especially one that's as future proofed as this game in terms of performance, like an MMO, World of Warcraft didn't become a juggernaut in the matter of months or even years. The performance requirements between are different but the growth model is something to compare it to.

Except they're getting this massive cast for SQ42, the flashy singleplayer campaign to draw in new players. But the barrier to entry for Star Citizen is so high, that the appearance of a celebrity isn't going to really sell anybody on the game. If SQ42 was your average console release, this cast would be a huge reason for its' sales. But since the barrier to entry is so high, the cast isn't going to have a profound effect on the game's profitability. Which is why I question the decision to invest money like this.

Ultimately though, I guess we can't firmly say if this is a good idea or not without specific numbers. We don't know how much the cast cost, how much material they recorded, or how integral those performances are to the experience of the game. We don't know if the money spent here required a sacrifice to some other element of the project. There are too many unknowns to make a firm call.

Again with the "millions of people" having to buy it. This isn't an early term goal or even necessarily a year long goal. This is a game where virtual ships worth hundreds of dollars are selling. It's a game with tons of opertunities for long term growth and in game payments. The only way people part with money is similar to Dota, where the items needs to be meaningful for the player and add value for others that play along side them.

Again this is warped console like logic of how a game should sell, last, develop, be monetised, its growth, its audience etc. I don't think any conversation I make will change your mode of thinking

So if the mode of sale is this radically different, why is Star Citizen getting all-star talent to push their game - a tactic typically used for major console releases? It's not an investment that seems pertinent to the long-tail success of the game. Why spend the money on this, instead of something relevant to the core experience?

 

[Anjelus_]

I had no interest in Star Citizen up until now.

I figured it was just another multiplayer space game like No Mans Sky or Elite Dangerous. I had no idea there would be some kind of singleplayer campaign. Gary Oldman is one of my favourite actors, and I love scifi, so this is definitely on my radar now.

Hello Mr. Target Demographic, nice to meet you!

 

[The Dear Leader]

Except they're getting this massive cast for SQ42, the flashy singleplayer campaign to draw in new players. But the barrier to entry for Star Citizen is so high, that the appearance of a celebrity isn't going to really sell anybody on the game. If SQ42 was your average console release, this cast would be a huge reason for its' sales. But since the barrier to entry is so high, the cast isn't going to have a profound effect on the game's profitability. Which is why I question the decision to invest money like this.

Ultimately though, I guess we can't firmly say if this is a good idea or not without specific numbers. We don't know how much the cast cost, how much material they recorded, or how integral those performances are to the experience of the game. We don't know if the money spent here required a sacrifice to some other element of the project. There are too many unknowns to make a firm call.

Yeah there is no way of knowing the specifics without more detail, but I would imagine it would convince enough people to buy the game or they wouldn't have done it or thought it was worth the investment, I'm sure they have ample reasoning, but as you say, there's no way of know for sure.

 

[DrBo42]

Hope they aren't just taking that raw performance capture and plugging it in. Doesn't look good as shown by Oldman's characters' speech. The Last of Us had to go in and hand key a lot of the capture to get rid of that jank.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Yeah there is no way of knowing the specifics without more detail, but I would imagine it would convince enough people to buy the game or they wouldn't have done it or thought it was worth the investment, I'm sure they have ample reasoning, but as you say, there's no way of know for sure.

I just don't see it translating into a successful marketing campaign, when the average consumer will need to buy a new computer just to play this one game.

 

[coughlanio]

Mark Strong is the most exciting addition.

 

[Danthrax]

Most expensive game ever at the time.

I remember seeing a big story on Entertainment Tonight about Wing Commander 3. Its profile was that big — Hollywood news shows on TV were telling the unwashed masses about it.

 

[Arttemis]

Except they're getting this massive cast for SQ42, the flashy singleplayer campaign to draw in new players. But the barrier to entry for Star Citizen is so high, that the appearance of a celebrity isn't going to really sell anybody on the game. If SQ42 was your average console release, this cast would be a huge reason for its' sales. But since the barrier to entry is so high, the cast isn't going to have a profound effect on the game's profitability. Which is why I question the decision to invest money like this.

Ultimately though, I guess we can't firmly say if this is a good idea or not without specific numbers. We don't know how much the cast cost, how much material they recorded, or how integral those performances are to the experience of the game. We don't know if the money spent here required a sacrifice to some other element of the project. There are too many unknowns to make a firm call.



So if the mode of sale is this radically different, why is Star Citizen getting all-star talent to push their game - a tactic typically used for major console releases? It's not an investment that seems pertinent to the long-tail success of the game. Why spend the money on this, instead of something relevant to the core experience?

This is such a closed minded viewpoint. The purpose of a quality single player experience is to provide a quality single player experience. Since when did quality have to be equated to advertisement for the product? People have front loader their profits during production, and Occam's razor points to this being a great attempt at justifying the massive support they've received.

Edit - Furthermore, the quality of the campaign isn't time sensitive. If many people have to wait to experience this due to limited hardware, it's not as though this effort is in vain. The experience for those people is only delayed, not diminished.

 

[More_Badass]

Mark Strong is doing game stuff now? Dude's awesome.

Never understood why he was never in games before, the guy is excellent in literally every movie I've seen him in.

Actually

 

[The Dear Leader]

I just don't see it translating into a successful marketing campaign, when the average consumer will need to buy a new computer just to play this one game.

This isn't the type of game that needs a successful marketing campaign, and it isn't for the average consumer, the hardcore people that have spent $91 million are the people it's for, having a star filled cast not only increases the value some people will see in what they have bought but also potentially bring in enough new people in the "hardcore" target demographic or people will build a PC for this on game that might not have been interested or knew anything about the game before.

There's already almost a 1,000,000 backers that bought into the game with 0 marketing of any sort, so any sort of bump they get from the cast is what I would consider a successful marketing campaign for a game that's thriving without one.

Even in this thread there are people saying they didn't even know the game had a campaign and are now interested in buying. On top of that the amount of people who are backing and pledging are continuing to grow with no sign of slowing down, so they haven't reached a peak on people who are interested,

 

[Trickster]

Well, going the hollywood VA route is one way to blow a lot of money I guess

 

[Arttemis]

This game is already breaking records and bringing in insane amounts of money. They don't need an advertising campaign. If they finish the game development with no money left in their bank, it's already a successful game that will only bring in profits from those who haven't yet donated.

I think it's nonsense to conflate an ambitious single player mode with some nonexistent need to increase awareness.

 

[Akuun]

Very nice cast. The speech is pretty cliche and cheesy, but I'm not sure what else you could do with it. Maybe a somewhat cheesy 90's feel is kind of what they were going for.

I'm very very glad to see something about Squadron 42 though, since that's the part I'm really interested in. They've been talking about ships for so long that I was starting to get bothered by the lack of Squadron 42 stuff.

I will most likely just play through Squadron 42 and mostly ignore the PU stuff because I don't have enough time in my life for another MMO-esque game anyway.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Gary Oldman makes everything good.

 

[Chance Hale]

Hope they aren't just taking that raw performance capture and plugging it in. Doesn't look good as shown by Oldman's characters' speech. The Last of Us had to go in and hand key a lot of the capture to get rid of that jank.

Imagine it'll improve before release, Crytek is helping with development(right?) and Ryse has some of the best facial animations in gaming.

 

[B4s5C]

Star Citizen is a Free 2 play online MMO-Puzzle game on iOS and Android.

Stop, you will give them ideas ;_;

Spoiler

Although I really wouldn't mind a companion app or something that wwas good and tied to the main game.

 

[Manu]

I don't think I've seen another game have a cast nearly as good as this one.

Like, holy shit. It really is impressive.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Wait, this is gonna have a story mode?

 

[aliengmr]

I just don't see it translating into a successful marketing campaign, when the average consumer will need to buy a new computer just to play this one game.

I think you are massively understating the amount of PC gamers out there. Its basically signalling to everyone that the Wing Commander days of old are back.

PC hardware is also not the barrier you are making it out to be. This is why PC games have the options menu. So long as you aren't running a really outdated video card, you'll be able to play the game.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I don't know if it will be worth it, but dammit if it isn't a very exciting cast.

 

[Geist-]

You can still pledge and get access to everything... $45 USD gets you Star Citizen, SQ42, etc.

There's also this one for $35 if you don't care about the alpha part of the game. It has a ship for SC, Beta Access, and SQ42.

 

[master0fdeception]

I don't really understand the doubt of the people who are saying that this game makes no sense financially. This is not an investment in voice actors but rather a delivery on a promise. When they first asked people to donate money to this game, they said that they would make an experience unlike any other. They already have the money, it was already given to them by the people who back them up. Now they are spending it in a way that they can make sure will deliver on their original ideas.

They don't NEED to draw in more people, but they definitely well with this move. Those of you saying that casting these people will not make a difference, I just want to know what you're smoking. The average gamer will not of heard about this game until now. However with this kind of cast this game is definitely on a lot of radars.


If the single player campaign is epic enough, the mmo will have very long legs going into the future. Personally, I see a lot of potential. By next year we will know if this is the most ambitious game of all time and if that translates into one of the best of all time. I have a feeling at release this game will be a big deal even outside of gaming circles if only for the way it was made and funded.

Anyone on the fence, 45$ gets you both the mmo and single player stuff. Not to mention you can take your ship out for practice even now.

 

[GearDraxon]

Wait, this is gonna have a story mode?

Comments like this are why I say, over and over, that CIG either has an immense PR problem, or is leaving untold money on the table (depending on your point of view.) GAF is a forum filled with people who are pretty serious about gaming, and yet this incredibly successful crowdfunding effort hasn't gotten the message out to them that there's, like, a full-sized single-player game, let alone that the ~$45 pledge price gives you access to it AND the big MMO-type thing when they're done.

It speaks to the dedication of the fanbase that they're doing so well, even while not getting this sort of basic info out to potential backers. Part of me is excited to hear that there's much more interest than just us nutballs who have been following it since 2012.

 

[vicinity]

Very nice cast. The speech is pretty cliche and cheesy, but I'm not sure what else you could do with it. Maybe a somewhat cheesy 90's feel is kind of what they were going for.

They've been writing the lore of the universe for years now, i've read a little of the recent stuff which help puts context and adds to this cut-scene.

Spoiler

It's supposed to be like that because it is pure propaganda, the "Vanduul attack" happened the same week as a vote to make huge cuts in military spending, it's speculated (not in lore, but by backers) that the military attacked or allowed the planet to be attacked to rally humans to go to war

 

[Mushroomer25]

This is such a closed minded viewpoint. The purpose of a quality single player experience is to provide a quality single player experience. Since when did quality have to be equated to advertisement for the product? People have front loader their profits during production, and Occam's razor points to this being a great attempt at justifying the massive support they've received.

Edit - Furthermore, the quality of the campaign isn't time sensitive. If many people have to wait to experience this due to limited hardware, it's not as though this effort is in vain. The experience for those people is only delayed, not diminished.

Ultimately I guess I just doubt that this game can deliver all that it has promised, plus this unbelievable cast for singleplayer - all within budget.

 

[Jimbostein]

CIG is looking to provide the best looking, best sounding, and best-all game that can be made. It's a game they are targeting to be the new "can your PC play Crysis?". It's a game where they hired the same guy that did the Iron Man UI, the same lighting engineer that did Marvel's Avengers and Disney's Frozen, and the same performance capture company that did Planet of the Apes and Avengers 2. And they hired concept artists that have also worked on Interstellar, Prometheus, Star Wars, and (my personal favorite) the guy who designed the Defiant class for Star Trek.

Why wouldn't they use the money gained from one of their stretch goals to get this huge cast to go along with it? You don't use voice actors to do full-performance capturing using the same process they use to film Avatar and the like.

This game is intentionally aiming for a small enthusiast PC market. It's why it had to be kickstarted...no publisher would take the kind of risk that is required to intentionally not make a game catered to the largest possible market or with this kind of ambition.

The way I see it is that even IF they were to run out of money (btw they earned another $1/2 million today, which probably paid off several of those actors), there's enough momentum and promise in the project for investors to still step in. Of course, since there's no marketing/ads or publisher, almost 100% of any money they make is pure profit that goes right to the developers.

 

[Geist-]

The way I see it is that even IF they were to run out of money (btw they earned another $1/2 million today, which probably paid off several of those actors), there's enough momentum and promise in the project for investors to still step in. Of course, since there's no marketing/ads or publisher, almost 100% of any money they make is pure profit that goes right to the developers.

Ya, a lot of people don't seem to get that the $91m is just what's been given by backers so far. When a million people are willing to give you over $90 million dollars, that unlocks a massive amount of credit to use since you have proof that you have a product that people want. And that's just one source of additional income, I'm sure people with the connections that Roberts and Freyermuth have they can secure additional sources, or even use his hard earned Wing Commander millions to fund a portion of it himself.

 

[GearDraxon]

Ya, a lot of people don't seem to get that the $91m is just what's been given by backers so far. When a million people are willing to give you over $90 million dollars, that unlocks a massive amount of credit to use since you have proof that you have a product that people want.

If that ever came to pass, there would be an enormous backlash. I'm sure that many would see it as it was, a necessary evil for the project to get finished, but there's a huge contingent of backers who see any sort of publisher/investor as The Devil.

 

[MikeDown]

kewl cgi, I still want my refund

 

[DrBo42]

kewl cgi, I still want my refund

Are they not granting refunds? If so, why?

 

[Kageshinzo]

Except they're getting this massive cast for SQ42, the flashy singleplayer campaign to draw in new players. But the barrier to entry for Star Citizen is so high, that the appearance of a celebrity isn't going to really sell anybody on the game. If SQ42 was your average console release, this cast would be a huge reason for its' sales. But since the barrier to entry is so high, the cast isn't going to have a profound effect on the game's profitability. Which is why I question the decision to invest money like this.

I think this is why you're confused. Do you have any idea why the Star Citizen exploded the moment Chris Roberts announced its Kickstarter? It's because the game is a love letter to those old-school PC space and flight sim fans who were weaned on Wing Commander, Strike Commander, and Privateer games in the early to mid 90s. These are the people who have no qualms of spending cash for Pentiums, CD-ROMs, HD space, and more RAM, back when most people use the computer for just word processing. These are the people who have been starved for decent space/flight sim games. If they (and their children who also grew up with these games) had no qualms spending money on rigs then -- at a time when a high-end PC does mean $$$ that's become a meme today -- do you think they'd balk at getting Titans or 980 Ti SLI'd, or getting the latest i7s, now, when PC gaming have actually become much more affordable, just so they can play another Chris Roberts game? The last WingCom game came out in 1997. The last game that was associated with Roberts was in 2003.

In short, the game wasn't made to draw in new players. It was made for the old fans; those who knew him and his games. These fans have considerable purchasing power. The initial Kickstarter boom is proof of that.

 

[amnesiac]

Game looks great but the "macro"transactions really turn me off.

 

[Jimbostein]

They give refunds on a case-by-case basis.

And to be clear, none of this (especially the speech cutscene) was pre-rendered CGI. It was rendered in real time, in-engine, with a single computer using the same components you have in a high-end PC. It used in-game assets, in-game textures, in-game rendering techniques.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Are they not granting refunds? If so, why?

they do

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Game looks great but the "macro"transactions really turn me off.

Keep in mind that the primary reason they sell ships is to fund development. When the game launches you won't be able to buy ships. Only thing which will remain is the Voyager Direct store.

 

[sol740]

In short, the game wasn't made to draw in new players. It was made for the old fans; those who knew him and his games. These fans have considerable purchasing power. The initial Kickstarter boom is proof of that.

Agreed, and if they deliver a game true to the vision they've sold backers, the product will sell itself to an even larger audience through simple word of mouth.

 

[More_Badass]

So if the mode of sale is this radically different, why is Star Citizen getting all-star talent to push their game - a tactic typically used for major console releases? It's not an investment that seems pertinent to the long-tail success of the game. Why spend the money on this, instead of something relevant to the core experience?

Because this

Weren't the old Wing Commander games about trying to be movie-like experiences with big-name actors in their day as well? I think that's what Wing Commander 3 and 4 were trying to do, but that was at around the dawn of CD-ROM gaming.

Yep. Now they just have tons more of money, so more and better actors.

There are actually "movie" videos on YT of the Wing Commanders. 2 hours of cheese FMV scenes each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qYItb4g6qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7xZulpJGI

 

[Ogimachi]

Are they not granting refunds? If so, why?

They are, I got mine last week. The new stuff almost made me feel bad for doing so, but I just couldn't stand the motion sickness the social module/fps videos give me.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

Man, that "Senate speech" cutscene or whatever was... bad sci-fi. I dunno. All around, the music felt off, the writing made zero sense, Oldman's delivery was off, costume/set design was super generic...

They should have just gone back to full FMV with weird cat people and what not. It'll probably be better than what they showed, but I'm a bit soured.

 

[tuxfool]

Hope they aren't just taking that raw performance capture and plugging it in. Doesn't look good as shown by Oldman's characters' speech. The Last of Us had to go in and hand key a lot of the capture to get rid of that jank.

Last of us did performance capture, but did keyframe animation for faces. It shows, but it would be too work intensive for this game.

 

[Corpekata]

Think people are overselling how "all star" or expensive the cast is. It's a cast movie and TV nerds like but they're not exactly actors that are likely making a ton of money each role. They're good character actors. They'll probably make enough money in sales this week to cover their expenses and then some.

 

[tuxfool]

Think people are overselling how "all star" or expensive the cast is. It's a cast movie and TV nerds like but they're not exactly actors that are likely making a ton of money each role. They're good character actors. They'll probably make enough money in sales this week to cover their expenses and then some.

Yeah. I don't think you're going to be spending too much time with the tier 0 actors, obviously just for important scenes. The Tier 1 actors and conversation system is what comprises the bulk of the script.

 

[aliengmr]

Think people are overselling how "all star" or expensive the cast is. It's a cast movie and TV nerds like but they're not exactly actors that are likely making a ton of money each role. They're good character actors. They'll probably make enough money in sales this week to cover their expenses and then some.

This.

They're B-list actors. The actors that work for a living. They aren't getting buried in leading roles.

And before anyone thinks I'm taking a swipe at them I'm not. When you aren't Tom Hanks or Brad Pitt, you gotta work for it.

 

[Aselith]

anyone know how to go about getting a refund?

this is turning into a real shit storm & all I...

this is turning into a real shit storm & all I know is I want my refund

kewl cgi, I still want my refund

?

 

[DrBo42]

Last of us did performance capture, but did keyframe animation for faces. It shows, but it would be too work intensive for this game.

Isn't that exactly what I said? Haha.

 

[tuxfool]

Isn't that exactly what I said? Haha.

I interpreted that you implied they were just tweaking the perf capture. I said that the faces were fully manual keyframe animated from scratch using visual references.