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Elon Musk: "Having pronouns in a fantasy video game is totally unacceptable". "Stop killing art with woke propaganda"

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Oberstein

Member
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Musk is right. Even the old Trek says so.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Is it a huge thing to code though? Big resources? A he/him tag in a character sheet is one thing, betting all on LGBTQ dialogues and story scripts like Dragon Age Veilguard is completely something else.
Honestly knowing Obsidian I have the feel that it's not going to just be the pronouns.

But I get your point man. I'm not saying the game will be shit nor a writter's nightmare like Veilguard seems to be. What I'm saying is that I'm a bit tired of the pronouns, the body types and all that jazz, and that I would rather not give my money to those devs.

I won't think less of you if you think I'm exaggerating and that getting the game is fine if it's just the pronouns and nothing else. I'll still vote with my wallet tho.

Was BG3 crap also?
They made Viconia into an ugly hag so of course it's shit!

Nah just kidding. Haven't played it, can't tell if it's good or bad, but honestly knowing it has the gender stuff kinda puts me off playing it and even more so giving them my money.
 
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Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Picking some bodytype a or b or having the option to select pronouns and shit doesn’t bother me..

However the shit in that dragon age game?
Yeah that annoys the fuck out of me
 

MiguelItUp

Member

I've never understood this approach. If you're a "person of power" of any form, you'll be taken more seriously if you can explain things or prove a point in detail with intelligence. Memes can be fun, and "relatable" or "accurate" to a degree. But seeing them used in instances like this feel so silly to me, lol. We get it, you use the internet, you know the memes and lingo. But what do you really think the "problems" are, and how would you resolve them?
 
And what agenda do you think is being pushed in that regard? Can you quantify it?
I can't quantify it, cause it isn't numerical.
I can qualify it for you if you like though, but it will get political and I don't want to skirt any rules around politics in this forum.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Anecdotal, but after writing and talking to people around the globe in a business setting, I prefer they display their pronouns. That way, I don't have to guess about their gender and all that. It makes the whole conversation easier.
Really? I've been in this game over 30yrs worked on lots of sites all and worked with lots of diverse teams and I've never once had to think what gender is this person, it simply doesn't exist outside of woke AF media firms and their HR/Marketing departments, everyone else.. it's all men and women and that's what's infuriating about this whole thing, trans people in ordinary life are like fucking unicorns we all know they exist but we never encounter them day to day yet I have to wear a fucking unicorn badge, play a fucking unicorn and if I don't like it, I'm the bigot!?!?
 

GHG

Member
I can't quantify it, cause it isn't numerical.
I can qualify it for you if you like though, but it will get political and I don't want to skirt any rules around politics in this forum.

Well done dodging the question entirely I guess.

It is to those that disagree with it.

Most people don't see it because it's the status quo.

Ah yes, the "status quo" which led us to where we are today and led to you even existing.

The horror.
 

PeteBull

Member
Translation: “BG3 and Hogwarts Legacy were too big to cancel and we wanted to play it. we pick our targets”

How exactly is the screenshot in the OP ‘putting it in your face’?
Bro, i didnt play either, but i simply aknowledge them both of being solid games, HL got canceled by woke clowns(resetera and alike deranged ppl), not by antifeminists like myself ;)
 

shamoomoo

Member
Pushback on mental illness and CULTural terraforming is not the same as the other side pushing their dogma.
What does that really mean? Whether positive or negative,all cultures will be influenced by outside forces.

I'm not a psychologist, psychiatrist, motivational speaker or in any field dealing with a person's mind but from what I understand a "real" mental issue is something that causes an individual to act/behave inappropriate in their society excluding neurological problems.

Again,from what I understand there seems to be LGBTQ elements throughout various cultural groups,there weren't people who were openly homosexual or transgender like now but there were instances of contextual homosexuality or third gendered people who have a trans like element.

Some practices I now of are: Chibados,Hijras,Muxte, Native American two spirits and Fa'afafines.
Though it's rooted in sexism,there was/is a practice in Albanian if a woman vows to be a virgin,she will have the same social advantages as the men. The practice is called burrnesha.
 

PeteBull

Member
So that just shows you that having pronouns in fantasy RPG's both can be acceptable and don't kill art with 'wokeism' 🤷‍♂️
Its a matter of how much tolerant person is and how much woke agenda is pushed in our faces, if game is of very high quality and woke agenda isnt pushed much then obviously 99% players wont mind it, its simple as that :)
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They made Viconia into an ugly hag so of course it's shit!

Nah just kidding. Haven't played it, can't tell if it's good or bad, but honestly knowing it has the gender stuff kinda puts me off playing it and even more so giving them my money.

Well at least if you opt not to play it because of that, you'll be firm on your commitment. And that is respectable in itself.

But in general, I can tell you that BG3 is a beloved game on GAF and most of the internet, broke award records etc etc. And it has the gender / pronoun options in its character creator too. It even changes how some characters talk to you, whether with male / female pronouns or they/them if you chose non-binary.

Many people in this thread enjoyed the game regardless of all that tho. So, to Elong's point, pronouns in a fantasy game can be acceptable and do not contribute in killing art. 🤷‍♂️
 

RedC

Member
Well done dodging the question entirely I guess.



Ah yes, the "status quo" which led us to where we are today and led to you even existing.

The horror.
I'm not saying I necessairly agree with this one, but the status quo is always being challenged, some new things get accepted, some new things get rejected, and a new status quo is formed, rinse and repeat.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
I've never understood this approach. If you're a "person of power" of any form, you'll be taken more seriously if you can explain things or prove a point in detail with intelligence. Memes can be fun, and "relatable" or "accurate" to a degree. But seeing them used in instances like this feel so silly to me, lol. We get it, you use the internet, you know the memes and lingo. But what do you really think the "problems" are, and how would you resolve them?

Elon has fuck you money. He doesn’t care. I find it kind of refreshing to see a top 3 richest person on earth acting like a shitposting nerd. The meme is accurate as hell too.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Really? I've been in this game over 30yrs worked on lots of sites all and worked with lots of diverse teams and I've never once had to think what gender is this person, it simply doesn't exist outside of woke AF media firms and their HR/Marketing departments, everyone else.. it's all men and women and that's what's infuriating about this whole thing, trans people in ordinary life are like fucking unicorns we all know they exist but we never encounter them day to day yet I have to wear a fucking unicorn badge, play a fucking unicorn and if I don't like it, I'm the bigot!?!?
How can that be? You can correctly identify the gender of someone from India or Korea just from their name. I know I can't.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Well at least if you opt not to play it because of that, you'll be firm on your commitment. And that is respectable in itself.

But in general, I can tell you that BG3 is a beloved game on GAF and most of the internet, broke award records etc etc. And it has the gender / pronoun options in its character creator too. It even changes how some characters talk to you, whether with male / female pronouns or they/them if you chose non-binary.

Many people in this thread enjoyed the game regardless of all that tho. So, to Elong's point, pronouns in a fantasy game can be acceptable and do not contribute in killing art. 🤷‍♂️
I'm going to be honest, commiting to not playing games that sport this kind of stuff is getting harder. Already skipped on BG3 and the DQ3 remake, and honestly I don't know if I'll be able to keep it up if more seemingly cool games keep doing this.

Hell, even Elden Ring had the body type nonsense and I did play that one.

I just hope this just turns out to be some kind of fad and not the norm for many years to come.
 

pasterpl

Member
Hate is such a strong word for someone voicing their opinion. Why does Elon upset you so much? Is it because he speaks out about stuff you champion?
If it only would be consistent;



He didn’t have issue with CP2077 or/and BG3 as far as I know.
 
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Imtjnotu

Member
The whole point of fantasy is that its fantasy.
There are no rules, only a question of if its good or bad.



I'm convinced that some people are just brainbroken by this nonsense. Its the rallying cry of people who don't know what's going on, and are searching for things to blame.
Wokeness isn't what's ruining games, its actually capitalism (but you'd randomly get called a commie for saying that).
Most games aren't made to entertain or inspire. They're made to make a profit. Everything in gaming these days is in service to Shareholder Value. Even if "Wokism" goes away, the underlying motive is the same. It'll just change from "woke pandering" to "antiwoke pandering", but with the same vapid nonsense underneath it. "Woke" or "not woke" is just a coat of paint after all.

Classic case of missing the forest for the trees, because ironically, so many gamers are soft and easy to offend.

Musk is pandering, he doesn't care about any of this. He's just saying all this BS to win political brownie points. You think he wants politics out of gaming? Lol no, he's making political gains using gaming as a tool, same way he used twitter.
Most gamers are soft?

Most gamers went through cod lobbies from 2006-2012 here my guy.

Ain't nothing soft about the majority of gamers. The numbers prove it.

Only ones who are soft are the ones simpling for twitch girls and women shaped pillows.
 

Kerotan

Member
How long before Reset/he/hera ban twitter altogether and only allow BluehairSky links.

Like him or not Musk is a major ally for gaming become normal again.
 

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
I have zero problems with modern setting-appropriate things (that's why I was chill about SM2 where the main setting is one of the most liberal and lefty cities on God's green Earth).

But shit like pronouns, surgical scars, non-binary things and other modern antics in fantasy settings are just off-putting and easily ruin your suspension of disbelief. It's just bad taste, bad style and, for the most part, bad storytellyng. Especially since many games depict realistic fantasy and inspired eras too softly. Hell, race equality in USA or gender equality globally are not even a century old concept, let alone pronouns.

Give me more bleak stories like The Witcher 3 and Cybeprunk 2077 (where colored alphabet is actually on-point) and less colorful group therapy sessions like Veilguard or Avowed.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If it only would be consistent;



He didn’t have issue with CP2077 or/and BG3 as far as I know.



Don't forget the other half of this shit-cherry pie, whose such a disingenuous hack that even the BG3 devs called him out on it.


F6AyaG4WIAAPGoI
 
Well done dodging the question entirely I guess.
If you want me to qualify it for you, then by all means.
The "agenda" you're wondering, is this counter-culture to "woke-ism" which is an ill-defined, nebulous boogeyman, that gamers seemed to have latched on to. It includes things such as not liking that there are now more women protagonists instead of men. It includes bemoaning the lack of sexuality in the form of big tits and big asses in games, but simultaneously being outraged at the existence of gay or lesbian characters, because sexuality in video games is only good if its the kind that you like. Its this idea that games shouldn't be political or contain any overt politics in their stories. Effectively, what RedC has said.

You can say that its not an "agenda", but if it isn't an agenda, then what is it? Things in gaming are changing because of an agenda, apparently. But you wanting things to not change or revert back to how they were is not an agenda? Why? Can you qualify that?

Ah yes, the "status quo" which led us to where we are today and led to you even existing.

The horror.
This is a funny statement considering that breaking the status quo is what has led to progress over the millennia. Why venture outside the cave as a caveman, if the status quo of being safe inside the cave is acceptable?
You can carry this logic through all of human history. It wasn't until the American civil war, that indentured servitude of black people was considered the "status quo". It wasn't until the 1960s that "coloured" people not being allowed to attend the same schools or drink from the same fountains was considered the "status quo". Which status quo is the most acceptable? Would you like to go back to feudalism and serfdom? Was that the optimal status quo? Or perhaps back to the colonialist Britain? Or maybe back to the age of human sacrifice?

"Things were better back in my day" is a tale as old as time.

Am I being facetious? Yes, but you chose to run with this rhetoric.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
How can that be? You can correctly identify the gender of someone from India or Korea just from their name. I know I can't.
Why do I need to know their gender in the first place? It's a professional environment, gender doesn't come into it, I write or talk to them as a fucking person
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Isn't fantasy all about FANTASY?

I don't care about LGBXAQETKDOSL stuff but aren't you supposed to create your own character like you want to?

Then why not make a toggle if the majority doesn't want to see it? Why must it be mandatory?

It's the agenda behind it. Not the act itself.


But let's not act as if that's the ONLY thing like that in those games
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'm going to be honest, commiting to not playing games that sport this kind of stuff is getting harder. Already skipped on BG3 and the DQ3 remake, and honestly I don't know if I'll be able to keep it up if more seemingly cool games keep doing this.

Hell, even Elden Ring had the body type nonsense and I did play that one.

I just hope this just turns out to be some kind of fad and not the norm for many years to come.
I think if a game originates with pronoun selection for the purpose of a game's systems to determine if you are male or female and load in dialogue to use towards your character then that's fine. I am also fine with the body type nonsense if a franchise started that way. What isn't ok is if a game had always used male/female and suddenly just flips a switch and uses Body Type A/B then it isn't ok. Or if the game goes out of it's way to shove pronouns in your face at every given opportunity.

Likewise if companies want to illustrate you can be whatever you want then the introduction of an android or synthetic or various monster races or a shapeshifting type of race would be more interesting then the lame road they are taking.

It is for this reason that no I will not buy remakes of Dragon Quest that pull that kind of crap. On the same token BG3 is also guilty as BG1 and BG2 also did not originate with body type stuff.

On top of that these games that promote be whatever you want often do everything to make both genotypes androgynous and ugly or at best the men look great but the women not so much. No busty ninja girls for us. If we are really generous we get great faces and hair but really boring bodies.

I think options are great if they remain options. If you want to play as a Gremlin they should let you do that. But if you want to play as bronzed Greek God or a Voluptuous Woman that spends all her time at the Salon then they should allow that as well.

The kicker here about Avowed is how restrictive they are being with player races limiting it to Human and Elves when the Pillars mythos has Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orlan, Aomaua, Godlikes.

It'll be a sad day when Outer Worlds might turn out to be better then Avowed. Which would be amusing.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Why do I need to know their gender in the first place? It's a professional environment, gender doesn't come into it, I write or talk to them as a fucking person
So you never use pronouns when talking to or about people? So you just use 'they/them' and thats somehow better?
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Woke isn't the inclusion of gay or trans people. Woke means forced inclusion with an agenda to push an ideological point of view (identity politics).

How does that toggle push an ideological point of view to you? Or corrupt your kids?
It’s a character creator, where you customize your character exactly how you want.

People get this confused all the time. Just because a game has gay or trans characters or a black female lead doesn't make it "woke."

Nobody gets it confused. Put up a game with a trans or black lead here and you’ll get allegations of ‘woke’ or ‘DEI’ in a jiffy.

In the Xbox 2024 showcase thread, we already had multiple ‘DEI’ posts as soon as the lead character of South of Midnight showed up on screen.

and less colorful group therapy sessions like Veilguard or Avowed.

Wanna share the clip of Avowed where you spotted ‘group therapy sessions’?

You happily played Hogwarts and put in like 300 hours into BG3. Sure it isn’t the Xbox thing that’s driving your point of view?
 

GHG

Member
If you want me to qualify it for you, then by all means.
The "agenda" you're wondering, is this counter-culture to "woke-ism" which is an ill-defined, nebulous boogeyman, that gamers seemed to have latched on to. It includes things such as not liking that there are now more women protagonists instead of men. It includes bemoaning the lack of sexuality in the form of big tits and big asses in games, but simultaneously being outraged at the existence of gay or lesbian characters, because sexuality in video games is only good if its the kind that you like. Its this idea that games shouldn't be political or contain any overt politics in their stories. Effectively, what RedC has said.

You can say that its not an "agenda", but if it isn't an agenda, then what is it? Things in gaming are changing because of an agenda, apparently. But you wanting things to not change or revert back to how they were is not an agenda? Why? Can you qualify that?


This is a funny statement considering that breaking the status quo is what has led to progress over the millennia. Why venture outside the cave as a caveman, if the status quo of being safe inside the cave is acceptable?
You can carry this logic through all of human history. It wasn't until the American civil war, that indentured servitude of black people was considered the "status quo". It wasn't until the 1960s that "coloured" people not being allowed to attend the same schools or drink from the same fountains was considered the "status quo". Which status quo is the most acceptable? Would you like to go back to feudalism and serfdom? Was that the optimal status quo? Or perhaps back to the colonialist Britain? Or maybe back to the age of human sacrifice?

"Things were better back in my day" is a tale as old as time.

Am I being facetious? Yes, but you chose to run with this rhetoric.

This definitely isn't a case of "things were better in my day", it's a simple case of questioning whether or not shite like pronouns helps us advance civilization in a meaningful way.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how pronouns and ideologies such as gender fluidity will help advance society.

The notion of a distracted West has never been more true. There are other areas of the world who pay no mind to any of this, and it's no coincidence that they are advancing at breakneck speed. No coincidence that many of the best videogames products are coming out of countries not preoccupied by this nonsense as well. It's not only wrecking economic output, it's also wrecking your entertainment products.

You would think that at some point people would stop and question what is going on and why it's happening, but alas, the propaganda is too overwhelming for most.

And don't insult my intelligence by attempting to equate things like demanding pronouns and the rise of modern LGBT ideology to the civil rights act. People who get up in arms about pronouns - that's a self created "problem" on a voluntary basis, while those of us who are black didn't wake up one day, read some propaganda online (or in the "news") and decide that's the way things needed to be for ourselves.
 
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Humdinger

Gold Member
Nobody gets it confused. Put up a game with a trans or black lead here and you’ll get allegations of ‘woke’ or ‘DEI’ in a jiffy.

You're proving my point. That is the confusion I said happens all the time. If that's all they are reacting to, they are confusing the presence of minority with the game being "woke" (i.e. forced diversity with an ideological agenda to push identity politics). Two different things.

In the Xbox 2024 showcase thread, we already had multiple ‘DEI’ posts as soon as the lead character of South of Midnight showed up on screen.

With South of Midnight, there was the Community Manager who made explicitly racist and misandrist statements. And I believe (not sure) that SBI also worked with them in some capacity. So there, it was more than just "black lead = woke."

However, if what you say is true (that those people were only reacting to the fact that it was a black female and were not aware of the CM or SBI factors), then you have a point. Those people are jumping to conclusions. Given the history of race-swapped characters in movies, it's not hard to imagine why they might have leapt to that conclusion, but it would be wrong to go there just based on the race of the character. In any event, we have no idea what the people you're referring to had in their heads, so we're both just speculating. And fwiw, there are certainly games with black female leads (e.g., Banishers) that do not get that reaction.
 

Kdad

Member
Then why not make a toggle if the majority doesn't want to see it? Why must it be mandatory?

It's the agenda behind it. Not the act itself.


But let's not act as if that's the ONLY thing like that in those games
What else bothers you that we should have toggles for?
 
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