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[MrCunningham]

And even in the case of MP3, this wasn't enough to attain the usual R* stratospheric numbers.

Well, that's true. Maybe the Max Payne name doesn't hold as much clout now than it did 9 years ago? Or maybe it will find a bigger audience on PC. Personally, I was a huge fan of MP 1 and 2, and plan on getting part 3 on PC myself. But I need to pick up a proper discrete video card first.

But my point is. Rockstar spent a lot of time and money on developing Max Payne 3. They at least tried to back their investment, and didn't just drop it onto an unexpecting market with a light advertisement campaign to die.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I'm saying it's gamer's and publisher's choice that games are $60. There's nothing stopping a publisher from developing a game with a small budget and launching it at a lower price. However, publishers are too busy chasing the AAA money, and gamers are too willing to buy into the blockbuster model. So, $60 is the standard due to publisher practices and gamer's choices.

Yeah, but the pricing options are still dictated by the platform holder and that needs to be adjusted so that royalty cut can play nice with the lower pricing, allowing the publisher and developer to have some middle ground at retail that isn't created via post-launch price cuts and that doesn't have to pit mid-tier games against the all-or-nothing AAA release that swallows up attention and dollars. The lower sales numbers will force them to react eventually, but perhaps too late to really make headway against old world rules this generation. I don't think it's as simple as you make it sound since many of these games were greenlit with the intention of working under the traditional models. If the platform holders open the system up for retail a lot more, we could see a much more diverse and livable dedicated home and handheld console software market.

 

[StevieP]

Why not, AMD has no problem selling $100 28nm GPU's right now. 28nm will be mainstream sooner than later, and certainly by the time next-gen starts.

It took a massive effort (and huge amounts of money) to get to the current node shrink/SoC, and there were challenges in the process - both for MS and Sony. Going another node down would provide a similar challenge, engineering-wise and financially, that the bean-counters may have crunched to not bring the ROI necessary to do so.

Think about it for a moment - why do you think MS is toying with a subscription model? (I mean outside their plans for next gen)

 

[mugurumakensei]

Yeah, but the pricing options are still dictated by the platform holder and that needs to be adjusted so that royalty cut can play nice with the lower pricing, allowing the publisher and developer to have some middle ground at retail that isn't created via post-launch price cuts and that doesn't have to pit mid-tier games against the all-or-nothing AAA release that swallows up attention and dollars. The lower sales numbers will force them to react eventually, but perhaps too late to really make headway against old world rules this generation. I don't think it's as simple as you make it sound since many of these games were greenlit with the intention of working under the traditional models. If the platform holders open the system up for retail a lot more, we could see a much more diverse and livable dedicated home and handheld console software market.

The royalties are pretty low for all of the big three. I believe they actually went down since last gen. Royalties are not what's stopping publishers from doing multiple price tiers. It's the publishers themselves, and gamers who see lower price points as "cheap".

 

[muu]

I recall seeing a graph a while ago showing per-die costs w/ respect to advancement in xxnm processes, where you saw lower cost per die as processes were refined up to 32nm but from there on the cost benefit over time ends up tapering at a similar level. i.e., 28nm and below no cost benefits can be realized even when the process has become efficient. Makes sense considering silicon is reaching its limits.

 

[Clear]

Hyperbole. Dragon's Dogma is a solid 7-7.5 game. The "enthusiasts" got it right, although the criticism by some that it was too hard is ridiculous. If anything the game is a complete cakewalk after the first few hours, made even worse by the fact that Capcom has a level cap of 200 yet does nothing whatsoever to bump up the difficulty in New Game +. The game is riddled with problems that are hard to overlook, but much like Amalur its a really good start. Calling it exceptional and proclaiming that the press simply dont get it is a joke. Score-wise, this is one of the few times I think they actually got it right.

Bullshit.

You point out an obvious fallacy in most reviews, then turn round and say "they got it right"?!
Riddled with problems? What game of this scope isn't? Skyrim? GTA? Hah. Do me a favour.

There are clear and obvious double-standards at work here.

More obvious faults in the reviews are "no story". Which is ridiculously untrue, its just not spoon-fed to you like the usual braindead fodder they exalt.

Is not the enthusiast media job's to promote games.

Exactly. Unless part of their role is to draw attention to things we (consumers) might like but may not be aware of, their existence is parasitic and undesirable. The ability to nit-pick is not "criticism", its heckling. And nobody likes a heckler.

 

[Baconsammy]

Bullshit.

You point out an obvious fallacy in most reviews, then turn round and say "they got it right"?!
Riddled with problems? What game of this scope isn't? Skyrim? GTA? Hah. Do me a favour.

There are clear and obvious double-standards at work here.

More obvious faults in the reviews are "no story". Which is ridiculously untrue, its just not spoon-fed to you like the usual braindead fodder they exalt.

The problem isn't "no story". It's that the story is shit. It is shit. I enjoyed the game, but the story played no part in that. There were two points in the game where I irked the Duke so much they he threw me in the dungeon for the rest of my life. I waltzed on out both times and the guards didn't give me a second look, and the Duke never mentioned it when I took more quests from him. That's quality. NG+ is a complete joke. The AI is stupid more often than it's not. I'm not saying the content of the reviews are good or accurate, but the average score is dead-on. DD is a solid 7.5.

 

[Kevtones]

Buy DD people, it's fantastic.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Nier fan hates video game critics, more news as it happens

 

[FieryBalrog]

Bullshit.

You point out an obvious fallacy in most reviews, then turn round and say "they got it right"?!
Riddled with problems? What game of this scope isn't? Skyrim? GTA? Hah. Do me a favour.

There are clear and obvious double-standards at work here.

More obvious faults in the reviews are "no story". Which is ridiculously untrue, its just not spoon-fed to you like the usual braindead fodder they exalt.



Exactly. Unless part of their role is to draw attention to things we (consumers) might like but may not be aware of, their existence is parasitic and undesirable. The ability to nit-pick is not "criticism", its heckling. And nobody likes a heckler.

People like you are why we don't get better videogame criticism. Every negative review pisses off thousands of ranting fanboys.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

9.) Dragon's Dogma (360, PS3) Capcom - 92K

Less than Monster Hunter 3, and on two platforms. Serves you well, Crapcom.

Spoiler

Sorry DD fans, but this game WILL NAWT replace MH!

This needed to be said. Thank you.

 

[test_account]

People like you are why we don't get better videogame criticism. Every negative review pisses off thousands of ranting fanboys.

I dont read much reviews, but when i do, i often hear criticism. I dont think this is going to change.

 

[1-D_FTW]

A paid critic being critical.

Hold the presses!

Seriously, this is what they're supposed to do. They rarely do (or most are simply incapable), but it's what they're supposed to do. It's the only reason any sane person would want to read a review. To be informed before parting with their money. But CLEARly many people like masturbatory material.

 

[Clear]

People like you are why we don't get better videogame criticism. Every negative review pisses off thousands of ranting fanboys.

How do you work that one out genius? I'm sure my opinion holds soooo much stock with your average videogame hack.

I highly doubt you've got the wit to even understand what criticism actually is.

Top-tip: Its not about finding specious faults and writing snarky prose/comments.

There were two points in the game where I irked the Duke so much they he threw me in the dungeon for the rest of my life.

And... what else are they supposed to do?

(1) Dead end. Duke executes player. Game Over. Restart at last checkpoint, or beginning of game if you want Rogue style gameplay. Pro is its new content and more realistic, Con is that its always gameplay negative - punishment with no positive aspect to the player. Because that's the crux of the matter. You (the player) have performed a negative action within the rules in the gameworld, so how much punishment is justified to maintain verisimilitude without being unduly harsh?

(2) Build a whole secondary story arc with the Duke as an antagonist. Tons of work, and for what? Its not like the game isn't big enough as it is. Also lots of logistical problems ensue because of how its going to impact other quests working within that space. Option (1) is far more practical and cost effective, and lets face it - this is a game about fighting dragons not asshole medieval-style monarchs. And this is kind of a tangent anyway as the whole process stems from an optional side-quest in the first place.

tl;dr - Specious criticism. Games like DD aren't comprehensive reality simulations, so you need to expect shortcuts will be taken as its logistically impossible to cover every situation to a uniform level of detail.

 

[UrbanRats]

I can't possibly rationalize the Dragon's Dogma numbers.
That game is hella good. :\
I expected it to bomb, but not THIS hard.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Granted, I don't read "professional" gaming reviews any more, but I think Clear's point isn't that negative reviews are bad, just that the flaws of certain games are overlooked while the flaws of others are overblown. But what more can one expect from subjective ramblings?

Perhaps, a case can be made that the pool of reviewers may be too homogenous in their tastes and their biases towards/against certain types of games may be present?

 

[Jarmel]

A paid critic being critical.

Hold the presses!

Seriously, this is what they're supposed to do. They rarely do (or most are simply incapable), but it's what they're supposed to do. It's the only reason any sane person would want to read a review. To be informed before parting with their money. But CLEARly many people like masturbatory material.

I want them to rip apart every single goddamn game. If a person wants to read a hyberbolic comment written by a person on the hype train then all they need to do is come to GAF and go to the review threads or OT. A critic's job is to be critical and too many games get way too many passes on bullshit design decisions or other glaring omissions. Why the fuck were people giving Mass Effect 3 perfect or near perfect scores without noticing the plethora of flaws that a 15 year old would notice? How about Uncharted 3?

Seriously this industry is full of manchildren on both sides of the industry, the gamers and the professionals themselves.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I want them to rip apart every single goddamn game.

Then nothing will be any good. I could rip apart your favorite video game too, if I went in actively looking for shit to bitch about.

 

[V_Arnold]

Sad thing about "critics being critics" is that they are sooooo eager to jump on a game that is just SLIGHTLY below "AAAA" level. If it is a game that one publisher heavily pushes? Let us ignore the faults, hey!

But if it is a game that obviously lacks the "let us throw 10-20 million dollar's worth of production value on this to mask the problems" mentality, some critics wreak havoc on it like no tomorrow...

..and this is why Skyrim PS3 is "GOTY-material", and why Nier is "bullshit cause I do not know how to do this fishing quest, and anyway, PS2-level graphics blablah".

Am I exaggerating this? Yes. But I do believe that it can be an issues with reviews in general.

 

[Clear]

I want them to rip apart every single goddamn game.

That's not criticism, that's heckling. There is a difference.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Then nothing will be any good. I could rip apart your favorite video game too, if I went in actively looking for shit to bitch about.

They need to be professional and insightful about it. That's the job description of what a critic is supposed to be. In theory.

To me, a guy like Shawn Elliot is who I'd like most reviewers to emulate themselves after. I want intelligent analysis of a game. Tell me what works. Tell me what doesn't. And why it doesn't.

Although at this point, the video game press has so alienated themselves from most buyers, it's probably irrelevant. The critic in the traditional sense is kind of a dying breed. It's going to be killed off in all traditional media forms well before the video game world establishes any respected figures.

 

[StevieP]

Seriously this industry is full of manchildren on both sides of the industry, the gamers and the professionals themselves.

Developers and even publishers can't and don't escape this criticism.

 

[Jarmel]

Then nothing will be any good. I could rip apart your favorite video game too, if I went in actively looking for shit to bitch about.

Good. It's better to be overly critical than the way it is now as it atleast means they're attempting to do their job.

 

[Mooreberg]

Sad thing about "critics being critics" is that they are sooooo eager to jump on a game that is just SLIGHTLY below "AAAA" level. If it is a game that one publisher heavily pushes? Let us ignore the faults, hey!

Publishers seriously need to look at variable pricing. Everyone knows which franchises are going to sell well at $59.99 and which ones will not. That isn't going to change until new systems come out. Although maybe not even then since publishers will be doing more sequels there as well.

Granted, I don't read "professional" gaming reviews any more, but I think Clear's point isn't that negative reviews are bad, just that the flaws of certain games are overlooked while the flaws of others are overblown.

This is true. It also doesn't help that they will just play the version of a multiplatform title that a publisher sends to them.

 

[Nert]

Sad thing about "critics being critics" is that they are sooooo eager to jump on a game that is just SLIGHTLY below "AAAA" level. If it is a game that one publisher heavily pushes? Let us ignore the faults, hey!

But if it is a game that obviously lacks the "let us throw 10-20 million dollar's worth of production value on this to mask the problems" mentality, some critics wreak havoc on it like no tomorrow...

..and this is why Skyrim PS3 is "GOTY-material", and why Nier is "bullshit cause I do not know how to do this fishing quest, and anyway, PS2-level graphics blablah".

Am I exaggerating this? Yes. But I do believe that it can be an issues with reviews in general.

Yeah, I'd agree that you're exaggerating. Giving games scores in the 6.0-8.0 range shouldn't be seen as "jumping" on a game, especially when most publications' rubrics would classify those scores as being good to great. If anything, grade inflation is a bigger problem; the text of many reviews may imply that the author felt lukewarm at best about a game, but those games can still receive an 8.0+ score.

And, as flawed of a metric as it is, I can't think of any games with Metacritic scores below 50 that I would be inclined to play. Not that that's a rule I use to filter my purchasing decisions, mind you. Games like Nier and Dragon's Dogma aren't sitting below a 50 there.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I can't possibly rationalize the Dragon's Dogma numbers.
That game is hella good. :\
I expected it to bomb, but not THIS hard.

I can understand the sharp decline of the handheld gaming in the States. But this decline in the console business is beyond my understanding. I really hope that the reason is just that people want new systems.

 

[Cat Party]

lmao, now Nintendo is providing "ecosystem" numbers and Sony isn't providing anything at all.

 

[RukusProvider]

The problem with reviewers is that a lot of them are using it as an "in" for the industry. They are hoping it materializes into a job with their favorite publishers, studio or console maker.

This is why I like Edge reviews where the reviewers name isn't listed.

The other obvious problem is fanboys and their response to good and bad reviews. They'll take good reviews as ammo to troll other games and act obnoxious to dismiss bad reviews.

 

[Boogdud]

3DS is $170, DSiXL dropped to $130, DSi dropped to $100.

XLs have comparatively gigantic screens so they have easy appeal.

This is the whole "DS family" naming scheme biting N in the ass. "Well, I don't care about 3d, I'll just get the regular one!" or "oh, the one with the big screen is really nice, I don't care about 3d as much". I think many consumers don't even realize that there's a difference other than the 'surname'.


Also, totally anecdotal but a buddy at work here had his daughter nagging him to buy a DSi XL just this week. She's 10 and already owns a regular DS and a 3DS. The reason? Because the DSi has pictochat... ?



as an adult with adult size hands I hate the 3ds and it's tiny sharp corners and that pitiful little screen. I'd kill for an xl version.

 

[Jokeropia]

US market is in terrible shape, but this is the slowest period of the year. It also seems that 3DS still hasn't replaced DS as they apparently sold almost equally his month. USA is generally slower to adopt new hardware than Japan though so this isn't really unprecedented.

 

[legendnthamaking]

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ndo-more-than-ever-in-this-ultra-violent-age/

I think this article brings up a interesting point that maybe some are overlooking. Out of the top 10, 5 are violent shooters. Maybe there just is a large portion of people that just isn't feeling the game market right now. The industry has been successful the past few years but maybe also there is a large portion of people that are just tired of the same shooters and sports games we have been seeing the past few years and are bowing out. I can say that unlike in previous years, I'm no longer in a rush to buy new games because its all shooter A, shooter B, shooter C, sports game and rarely this gen, will you get that one gem like Monster Hunter Tri, Uncharted 2, Vanquish, Arkham City, Skyward Sword (suck it haters), Portal 2 or Galaxy 2 that manages to stand out as something fresh. I think the violence is starting to turn off a lot of people not because they may be anti-violence or squeamish but because the violence in modern games is really becoming tasteless in how its presented and is the games only selling point but a selling point because it fails at really compelling gameplay or narrative.

 

[walking fiend]

This is the whole "DS family" naming scheme biting N in the ass. "Well, I don't care about 3d, I'll just get the regular one!" or "oh, the one with the big screen is really nice, I don't care about 3d as much". I think many consumers don't even realize that there's a difference other than the 'surname'.


Also, totally anecdotal but a buddy at work here had his daughter nagging him to buy a DSi XL just this week. She's 10 and already owns a regular DS and a 3DS. The reason? Because the DSi has pictochat... ?



as an adult with adult size hands I hate the 3ds and it's tiny sharp corners and that pitiful little screen. I'd kill for an xl version.

Regarding Nintendo, you should notice even their DS games are still priced nearly the same as the 3DS ones, almost disregarding how long it has been since their release. They are also going to launch a new mainline Pokemon this year, and another major spin-off is soon to be released.

So although obviously they prefer to sell 3DSs instead of DSs, its not like selling DSs is biting them.

(btw, I sooo want them to release a larger 3DS with better ergonomics, screen and preferably a second stick!)

 

[ryaxnb]

Peter Skerritt @PeterSkerritt

@kmartnintendork Lack of any Wii titles? Maybe. When you sell 70% fewer Wii units as compared to last May, there's something afoot.


Get to it gaf!

...160k... representing a 45 percent share of current-generation console sales in the U.S.

By my calculations:
70.8k Wii
160k 360
113.5k 3ds
101.5k DS
124.2k PS3

 

[djtiesto]

How is it that the long-suffering Japanese gaming industry actually seems healthier than ours?

Because the retreat to the portables was a very smart thing for Japanese developers. Lower dev costs on platforms that actually sold to the Japanese public. Unfortunately, it had the effect of hurting their mindshare in the west, as the western press typically ignores handhelds and all the wonderful Japanese games on them.

 

[Kuroyume]

Anyone else feel that new consoles aren't the answer? I can see them definitely selling more hardware but do you really feel software would be selling significantly more? Seems like a gamble with development costing more to do so right now. I think there's just a general apathy towards retail releases at the moment.

 

[Syphon Filter]

wtf at microsoft pr, 2004 and 2007 were xbox's greatest years.

 

[UrbanRats]

I can understand the sharp decline of the handheld gaming in the States. But this decline in the console business is beyond my understanding. I really hope that the reason is just that people want new systems.

Same.
Are people getting tired of gaming or what? Maybe it's simply a deficit in attention due to the higher number of stimuli (smartphones, internet etc) that are stronger and wider than before? No idea.

 

[SephirothRK]

Dragon Bomba.

EDIT: I'm interested on the total number for D3.

 

[Scoops]

Yep looks like the last years of a generation. Ugh I can't believe ps3, and the 360 lasted this long. The Wii has been a zombie for the past 2-3 years.

Ehhh one and a half years. Holiday '10 was solid for Wii.

 

[sweetvar26]

I'm surprised Ghost Recon was able to hold up against Max Payne, considering how much advertising I saw about Max Payne compared to Ghost recon.

They even had its posters on bus stops and billboards.

 

[Saty]

Newsbrief: Rockstar's Max Payne 3 and Ubisoft's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier both underperformed in the U.S. during May according to analyst firm Cowen, accelerating the major decline in retail sales.

Both titles sold just over 400,000 units each, down 200,000 each compared to Cowen analyst Doug Creutz's estimates, while Diablo III sold 1 million units at retails during May (it had sold 6.3 million worldwide at both retail and digital within its first week on sale).

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...oldier_sold_400K_US_units_each_during_May.php

 

[Biggzy]

I'm surprised Ghost Recon was able to hold up against Max Payne, considering how much advertising I saw about Max Payne compared to Ghost recon.

They even had its posters on bus stops and billboards.

Maybe Ghost Recon has more brand awareness than Max Payne.

 

[Zen]

By my calculations:
70.8k Wii
160k 360
113.5k 3ds
101.5k DS
124.2k PS3

What about Vita?

 

[Syphon Filter]

if i recall vita is about 50k.

 

[A Human Becoming]

By my calculations:
70.8k Wii
160k 360
113.5k 3ds
101.5k DS
124.2k PS3

DS did <100k according to creamsugar.

What about Vita?

50k < Vita sales < 56.8k

 

[Kusagari]

Damn, at Diablo doing 1 mill not even counting digital.

 

[Miles X]

Poor sales, I wonder if Microsofts super secret press conference on monday will include Durango/Price cut.

 

[Biggzy]

Poor sales, I wonder if Microsofts super secret press conference on monday will include Durango/Price cut.

Highly unlikely. The best guess is that MS are going to show their own branded tablet.

 

[Snipes424]

Well videogames, you had a good run.

Depressing month, but 2012 has been a terrible year so far for games.

 

[Yo Gotti]

Well videogames, you had a good run.

Yea right. Videogames are still selling better than ever.

This problem is probably more related to hardware saturation and hardware manufacturers refusing to drop price.