flyinpiranha
Member
So it takes 300 million dollars to recoup on a game these days?
I blame the publisher and developer.
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NPD May 2012 Sales Results [Up4: Max Payne 3, Dragon's Dogma, Ghost Recon]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
So it takes 300 million dollars to recoup on a game these days?
I blame the publisher and developer.
walking fiend
Member
That's a very strange kind of issuing statistics; maybe not many of the 70% buy eShop games?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Unoriginal shooter vs really cool new IP. You know what is killing the industry? The gamers, they have lowest common denominator tastes and rarely venture from their comfort food. At least DD sold well in Japan, where they don't just buy dudebro games.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The sad part is Dragon's Dogma is another exceptional Japanese game that's been given short shrift by the failings of the western enthusiast (yeah, right) press.
For all the hand-wringing that goes on, its blazingly apparent to me that they are a huge part of the problems afflicting the state of creativity in the industry. There's far too much focus on what things do "wrong" and not enough on eulogizing about what's good, and unique and ambitious.
The same old shit gets lauded, new stuff gets hung out try die. Weaksauce.
For all the hand-wringing that goes on, its blazingly apparent to me that they are a huge part of the problems afflicting the state of creativity in the industry. There's far too much focus on what things do "wrong" and not enough on eulogizing about what's good, and unique and ambitious.
The same old shit gets lauded, new stuff gets hung out try die. Weaksauce.
Baconsammy
Banned
Skyrim sold extremely well here. That's not a dudebro game. Amalur, compared to DD, had a huge opening. Perhaps gamers were turned off by paying 60 dollars for a game with a really crappy demo and a score average in the low 70s. Or some were turned off by Capcom's shitty on-disc DLC policy? Regardless, Capcom could address the situation immediately by dropping the price 20-30 bucks and they'll nab a ton of people that are on the fence. Or they can just wait until retailers bargain bin it and everyone waits and scoops it up for 19.99.
walking fiend
Member
I doubt dropping the price will have any major effect on it; selling below 100K for a game like DD means there simply hasn't been the desire to purchase the game;
This hurts too (generally), it's obvious, especially in this era where we're all much more connected than...let's say...6 years ago, and so gaming journalists can have an even bigger power in decisions of people who actually look for opinions about a certain game.
Yeah, you know this means the media has to become much more mature, not in the sense of blood and curses, but in the sense of being able to recognize what's not good and what's good, without being guided by fanboysm / money...eh, such a long long run.
About MH3 ( nominated due to DD's performance) and Capcom...Maybe, I'm starting understanding what's happening. Capcom will release just MH4 here, probably for the following reasons
1)MH3G is the port of MH3, a game which already did pretty well here, and a port without something, online. So, in their opinion, it's worthless to bring it here, not even talking about bringing it here with online mode added.
2)MH4, from the first trailer, showed many different things, a pretty big increase in action...something which could attract much more Western audience for the intensity of attacking the monster. And probably this entry will have online too.
Dragons Dogma is a fun game that has zero personality and a terrible name.
It's no one's fault except Capcom's.
MrCunningham
Member
One has a massive advertisement budget and slick looking TV adverts. The other one doesn't.
How much advertising have you seen for Dragons Dogma so far? I haven't seen any. How much buzz has there been about the game on message boards like this? Mild at best.
I'm not saying the game looks bad or anything, but Capcom hasn't really done enough to promote the game at all.
Tears For Fears
Banned
Welp that's false and full of shit.
Baconsammy
Banned
Hyperbole. Dragon's Dogma is a solid 7-7.5 game. The "enthusiasts" got it right, although the criticism by some that it was too hard is ridiculous. If anything the game is a complete cakewalk after the first few hours, made even worse by the fact that Capcom has a level cap of 200 yet does nothing whatsoever to bump up the difficulty in New Game +. The game is riddled with problems that are hard to overlook, but much like Amalur its a really good start. Calling it exceptional and proclaiming that the press simply dont get it is a joke. Score-wise, this is one of the few times I think they actually got it right.
They had a demo. Granted it's a really bad demo, but they had a demo.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
One thing I found interesting is that it looks like Raccoon City had terrible legs...
Worldwide, I think it's between like DQIX and FFXIII with almost 5 to 6 million IIRC.
In the United States, I think it's FFXIII with over 2m, but maybe Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside Story sold more.
Worldwide, I think it's between like DQIX and FFXIII with almost 5 to 6 million IIRC.
In the United States, I think it's FFXIII with over 2m, but maybe Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside Story sold more.
CadetMahoney
Member
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They should be doing both really. PC for the established base and Wii U for the early adopter potential. System launches can be a huge boon to new IPs, they're really the best time to push them in fact.
Hell, Capcom should probably consider squeezing out a Vita port too if it's at all feasible. Especially if they could con Sony into incentivising it.
Baconsammy
Banned
No, not "this". Max Payne is ripping off which shooters exactly? Whereas the devs of DD claim they were heavily inspired by Oblivion and other western RPGs. On the originality scale, DD doesn't score very high. Saying it bombed due to western gamers only wanting shooters is dumb. The game that out-sold them both by a ton was Diablo 3.
GrandHarrier
Member
This is how I feel. I bought the game and put a good chunk of time into it. But the lack of personality, of "soul", of any real story, hurt it alot. The combat is great, but after awhile you are just going through the motions.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They also had tv ads, retailer/preorder promotions, a viral/social media campaign, RE6 demo... the myth that Capcom didn't advertise or push DD needs to stop because it's just not true.
I know this writer -- he used to write a publication when I was a games journo/critic before I jumped to marketing/PR. He is, by large, a Nintendo fanatic. This article is right up his alley, so his latest piece does not surprise me.
LOL no
Guys - this isn't going to be the first generation in history where costs stay the same or go down. They're going to go up again.
Do you ever stop trolling? It's an NPD thread lol
And make it $70? Cause really that's the only option for them here.
Baconsammy
Banned
How is it trolling? Someone said Sony should go third party and I said I don't want to see the games I'm playing on my Vita dumbed down to work on a 3DS, which is exactly what would have to happen to accomodate the lack of a second analog stick and much much inferior graphics capabilities. Or does "trolling" to you simply apply to everyone that says something you dont personally agree with?
Takamura-San
Member
Is not the enthusiast media job's to promote games. Capcom sent the game to die.
Reviewers be dammed.
Criminal Upper
Banned
Jesus, for Capcom's most expensive game ever, Dragon's Dogma sure failed.
Personally, I hope 3DS games never get dumbed down to work on the Vita.
Personally, I hope 3DS games never get dumbed down to work on the Vita.
MrCunningham
Member
Well, I'm sure the demo might have helped a bit hitting that 90K sales mark (I know you're being sarcastic about the demo
). But there really wasn't any hype or exposure for this game. Maybe in Japan it was hyped as being a "WRPG like experience with a non anime art style, that was developed by a Japanese game company", which most likely helped generated a lot of interest for this game.
But in the west, it seems like Capcom did almost nothing to promote this title at all. And as some have said, it's one of the most expensive games they've ever produced... Did they really expect it to strive on word of mouth alone?
Rockstar on the other hand, were generating all sorts of buzz with their "making of" videos and heavy handed advertisement. They know how to promote a game. It's what they do best.
Why are people surprised at the sales?
For anyone calling Max Payne 3 unoriginal and claiming Dragon's Dogma is something divinely unique among a sea of RPGS...
C'mon. Max Payne had a number of unique additions to the third-person shooter formula. The game's use of bullet-time, alone, still separates it from Uncharted, Gears, etc. The prone firing, last man standing, Max's body inertia, the way he handles multiple weapons & inventory, and a bunch of small shooter-minutia touches made the game feel great and new to me when compared to its contemporaries.
It might not be a 100% original concept, shooting from the third person with cover mechanics being an option, but let's not pretend that Dragon's Dogma was a fresh-from-the-ground-up kind of affair.
C'mon. Max Payne had a number of unique additions to the third-person shooter formula. The game's use of bullet-time, alone, still separates it from Uncharted, Gears, etc. The prone firing, last man standing, Max's body inertia, the way he handles multiple weapons & inventory, and a bunch of small shooter-minutia touches made the game feel great and new to me when compared to its contemporaries.
It might not be a 100% original concept, shooting from the third person with cover mechanics being an option, but let's not pretend that Dragon's Dogma was a fresh-from-the-ground-up kind of affair.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Sony's best games are already "dumbed down" or low end. The most interesting stuff SCE puts out like Tokyo Jungle, Patapon, Journey or PixelJunk would be right at home on Nintendo hardware. They can save the shallow techporn Dude Raiders and Killshooters for Xbox and still keep that contingent happy anyway.
At this point, I'm not sure what Sony & MS will do. Sony is bleeding money and doesn't want to cut into the profit they make with each PS3. Same goes for MS/X360.
I think they both could cut their prices, but not anymore than $50.
Don't let that get in the way of "dudebro"-bashing, though! :lol
I think they both could cut their prices, but not anymore than $50.
Don't let that get in the way of "dudebro"-bashing, though! :lol
test_account
XP-39C²
They are not dumbed down at all. Most of them have great graphics etc.. I thought maybe you were talking about Vita games only compared to PS3 games, but that cant be it when you mention Tokyo Jungle and Journey.
EDIT: Nevermind, i see now what you mean, that you think the best games from Sony are "low end" (such as Tokyo Jungle etc. as you mentioned).
I wonder how quickly Capcom can rework Dragon's Dogma as a Wii U launch title if that wasn't already in the works. They'll need to in order to get back more of their investment. They can not be happy. It's not like they didn't advertise. I did see the ads but it's really the quality of the ads. Why these companies don't advertise games outside of Japan the way they do in Japan is something I just don't understand. Advertise the gameplay element. Let potential buyers know exactly what the game will be like. Especially when it comes to an RPG.
Pachterballs
Banned
`forgot that DD had the RE6 demo. Maybe sales might pick up when the demo releases. Tehy probably shouldnt have late launched the Ps3 version almost a month later seeing how, giving MS a bonus month isnt benefitting them one bit.
i wonder what the breakdown / platform is.
i wonder what the breakdown / platform is.
Thanks for the info.
I was talking about the console pricing model, not game pricing mode???
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I half wonder if MS doesn't just phase out the 4GB model and move the HDD packages down in price rather than drop below the $199 barrier? Basically value add instead of a real price drop?
Sony I think has to go to $199 this fall. They have to do something with Wii U launching, plus there's no way they're going to hit their PS3 targets with monthly sales like this. Actually, after this NPD I think all Nintendo and Sony's current platforms will miss forecast unless something's done, except DS.
Baconsammy
Banned
Jesus, for Capcom's most expensive game ever, Dragon's Dogma sure failed.
Personally, I hope 3DS games never get dumbed down to work on the Vita.
Personally I'd love to see Mario/Zelda on the Vita's beautiful screen and being played with sticks instead of a slider. That's just my own personal preference though. From a portability perspective, I prefer the 3DS (but I prefer the DSi over it). From a tech perspective, I'll take the Vita over the 3DS every single day of the week. Both are failing pretty hard at what matters most to me - compelling games that make me want to spend 40 dollars instead of 99 cents on my iPad.
It'd be nowhere near bad as PC, where there are other issues besides fragmentation, such as lack of a TRC team before a game is allowed to be launched, drivers, etc. You'd be going from a million dev targets to 2/3/4 tops.
2-3 year cycle with consoles sold at profit from day 1 would do wonders for the industry. The high cost of such consoles would be recovered with subscriptions.
And even in the case of MP3, this wasn't enough to attain the usual R* stratospheric numbers.
Baconsammy
Banned
Same goes for MS? In what way? They're not bleeding money at all.
I've been saying this since the first page - I don't think this is going to happen (for either MS or Sony).
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Nintendo's never going third-party, though. Sony is clearly the one that looks like it would be the most viable third-party candidate right now.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, I don't know exactly what you're saying here, but I was talking about changing the rules before the generation snuffs itself out early by not adapting quickly enough. The platform holder makes the rules and the dedicated software industry has to play by them or find a new partner who will allow them greater flexibility and the opportunity to more directly deal with their customer, like Steam or iOS. The $60 + DLC plan isn't working out for most the vast majority, so why stick with it?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
They still haven't recouped their losses on 360 yet, have they? I thought we already had this discussion weeks ago. They had a great year last year, though, which is good news for them going forward.
Version 3.0
Member
Dark Souls did well. Like its predecessor, it's a great example of a game that didn't cost hundreds of millions to make or sell several million copies, but still turned a nice profit for its developer/publisher.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
360's been in the black for years now. You might be thinking Xbox overall, in which case I don't think they've quite recovered yet from the XB1 losses.
Version 3.0
Member
They should also do something that publishers almost never do: promote the game again around Christmas. The success of a game shouldn't depend on the first week of sales.
mugurumakensei
Member
I'm saying it's gamer's and publisher's choice that games are $60. There's nothing stopping a publisher from developing a game with a small budget and launching it at a lower price. However, publishers are too busy chasing the AAA money, and gamers are too willing to buy into the blockbuster model. So, $60 is the standard due to publisher practices and gamer's choices.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
The problem there is the volatile retail environment. Later promotions can work for something like Mario Kart that can hold it's value, but that's a position most games just can't manage for various reasons.
The only way a 2nd DD promotion this holiday really makes sense is with a content added reissue (say "Dragon's Dogma Gold"), new platform ports (Wii U, PC) or preferably both ("Dragon's Dogma Gold" on 360/PC/PS3/WU).
Why not, AMD has no problem selling $100 28nm GPU's right now. 28nm will be mainstream sooner than later, and certainly by the time next-gen starts.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The gaming division or 360 hardware? They boast revenue all the time, but they don't talk cost and profit often. They spent $500m promoting Kinect, it will take a lot of sales to get that back. they also bragged about $1b in revenue from XBL, but they never said anything about making money. Along with RRoD, I bet they are down quite a bit this gen alone, last gen was a huge loss.
Warm Machine
Member
We had a month where Xbox 360 minecraft did almost 1 million units sold on XBLA. Trials Evo continued to sell and there were other notables available digitally. I think this is more indicative of a regular spring month, console market saturation/price point, and a consumer move towards digital distribution gaming.