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[kevboard]

The 2060 is nowhere near a PS5, my guy. In fact, even the 2070 is slower and the 2070S is around equal. That’s not even getting into the VRAM.

The 5700 XT is not faster than the PS5’s GPU either.

DF did a whole piece. 6700=2070S=PS5’s GPU.

turn on RT and it's not slower anymore in many games.
Spiderman 1 on the 2060 can get 1080p 60fps with RT enabled. the PS5 version drops to 1080p in Performance RT mode.

the 5700 XT was an error lol

 

[Gaiff]

turn on RT and it's not slower anymore in many games.

That’s not true though. The 2070S even gets beaten by the PS5 in Cyberpunk with RT shadows. The API the PS5 uses for RT is much leaner and flexible than DXR that a developer described as a "black box”.

 

[kevboard]

That’s not true though. The 2070S even gets beaten by the PS5 in Cyberpunk with RT shadows. The API the PS5 uses for RT is much leaner and flexible than DXR that a developer described as a "black box”.

well, Spiderman 1 with RT is very close in performance between the 2060 and the PS5

I haven't seen a full like for like, as all the typical youtube channels that upload benchmark runs just slap presets on, and the PS5 uses a mix between high and very low settings in performance RT, so it's hard to actually tell.

but I HIGHLY doubt that the 2070S gets beaten in RT workloads by the PS5...
the 2070S can run path traced Cyberpunk at playable framerates...

 

[T4keD0wN]

The 2060 is nowhere near a PS5, my guy. In fact, even the 2070 is slower and the 2070S is around equal. That’s not even getting into the VRAM.

The 5700 XT is not faster than the PS5’s GPU either.

DF did a whole piece. 6700=2070S=PS5’s GPU.

This is correct, but do these comparisons really matter? PS5 targets 2160p TVs, whereas 50% of steam userbase uses 1080p monitors.

I am sure a 2060 will fail less at 1080p than a 2080 super will fail at 4k. Plenty of people have access to playing it.

the 2070S can run path traced Cyberpunk at playable framerates...

Ive had 3070ti and it has struggled with ray traced Cyberpunk at playable framerates

 

[kevboard]

Ive had 3070ti and it has struggled with ray traced Cyberpunk at playable framerates

then you probably used bad settings.

on the 3060ti I can play with DF's optimised settings + RT reflections at 60fps no problem.

1440p DLSS performance mode + Pathtracing at above 60fps is also doable.

so your 3070ti should easily outdo my 3060ti

 

[simpatico]

You guys scoff, but that jaw has more triangles than the entire PS1 final fantasy series. Nvidia needs to bring out a jaw tracing card.

 

[T4keD0wN]

then you probably used bad settings.

on the 3060ti I can play with DF's optimised settings + RT reflections at 60fps no problem.

1440p DLSS performance mode + Pathtracing at above 60fps is also doable.

so your 3070ti should easily outdo my 3060ti

You sure? Just did a test run twice (the other was worse) granted this is undervolted and modded, but still id like to see 3060ti results

 

[hemo memo]

Think about it—it's actually a clever strategy from Sony. By releasing poorly optimized PC ports, they make PC players frustrated with the performance, pushing them toward buying a PS5 instead.

Edit: i'm joking obviously.

 

[Fess]

So from a business perspective, what makes sense is to continue with their current pc ports strategy and maybe push it a bit further, as would be to also port older or less popular games, release their own PC store, maybe even to put there PS1/PS2/PSP classics, maybe reduce the window for SP games a bit, etc.

I definitely think they will try the store and launcher thing, they all do eventually.
Legacy titles exclusive to their own launcher would be clever.

But I still think such a thing would fail unless they still sell everything on Steam too. Steam is too big to ignore now, and it’ll get even bigger when SteamOS roll out on handhelds and new devices.

I don’t understand why they removed the PSN requirement though, on the latest and upcoming releases. The requirement was a typical move to have some platform holder walls up. And they remove the walls, huh? That was a surprise. Maybe they see that it affect the sales numbers too much or increase negativity around the releases?

If day 1 ain’t happening then shorter delays is a must imo. Don’t know how big the gap should be but a year is too much. I’ll watch the Indy release on PS5 with great interest. First example of a 6 months delay for a SP release. Should show if there can be any hype left after that time. I think it’s too late but we’ll see.

 

[Fess]

Think about it—it's actually a clever strategy from Sony. By releasing poorly optimized PC ports, they make PC players frustrated with the performance, pushing them toward buying a PS5 instead.

lololol
That ain’t happening and having stinky reviews is awful. Nixxes is just pushed too much, multiple AAA ports per year. I think they need to work in parallell with the original dev so they get maybe 2 years per project at least.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Think about it—it's actually a clever strategy from Sony. By releasing poorly optimized PC ports, they make PC players frustrated with the performance, pushing them toward buying a PS5 instead.

Yeah, that aint it. They make money selling software not hardware. This way they dont have to subsidize hardware and just get the easy money.

If anyone was willing to play it on Playstation they would have likely done so long ago and possibly for cheaper since it had a physical release
Only the holdouts who refuse to do so (plus double dippers) will buy this and a bad port risks refunds and unhappy customers not want to buy their next stuff.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I definitely think they will try the store and launcher thing, they all do eventually.
Legacy titles exclusive to their own launcher would be clever.

But I still think such a thing would fail unless they still sell everything on Steam too. Steam is too big to ignore now, and it’ll get even bigger when SteamOS roll out on handhelds and new devices.

I don’t understand why they removed the PSN requirement though, on the latest and upcoming releases. The requirement was a typical move to have some platform holder walls up. And they remove the walls, huh? That was a surprise. Maybe they see that it affect the sales numbers too much or increase negativity around the releases?

If day 1 ain’t happening then shorter delays is a must imo. Don’t know how big the gap should be but a year is too much. I’ll watch the Indy release on PS5 with great interest. First example of a 6 months delay for a SP release. Should show if there can be any hype left after that time. I think it’s too late but we’ll see.

Good strategy would be Day 1 on PS Store on PC with lots of perks (Cross-buy PS/PS5, Cross-Saves, etc). Work with third parties to get their games on their PC store as well (with same Cross/Buy features).

Then release their games 2 years later on Steam

 

[HogIsland]

Good strategy would be Day 1 on PS Store on PC with lots of perks (Cross-buy PS/PS5, Cross-Saves, etc). Work with third parties to get their games on their PC store as well (with same Cross/Buy features).

Then release their games 2 years later on Steam

good strategy would be pc only, don't make playstation games anymore

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

good strategy would be pc only, don't make playstation games anymore

 

[kevboard]

You sure? Just did a test run twice (the other was worse) granted this is undervolted and modded, but still id like to see 3060ti results

what settings?
I use basically exactly DF's optimised settings, not a preset or anything.

also, with path tracing, you actually might be CPU limited tbh

 

[Fess]

Good strategy would be Day 1 on PS Store on PC with lots of perks (Cross-buy PS/PS5, Cross-Saves, etc). Work with third parties to get their games on their PC store as well (with same Cross/Buy features).

Then release their games 2 years later on Steam

That’s already been tried by Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, etc. By now I think they’ve all concluded that it’s not a good strategy. The perks needs to be better and tailored for PC gamers, cross-saves and cross-licenses to console mean nothing if you’re just on PC and want to use Steam.

But I would be for it, as long as I can insert the games into Steam like with Gamepass games it works for me, better than having to deal with delays.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That’s already been tried by Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, etc. By now I think they’ve all concluded that it’s not a good strategy. The perks needs to be better and tailored for PC gamers, cross-saves and cross-licenses to console mean nothing if you’re just on PC and want to use Steam.

But I would be for it, as long as I can insert the games into Steam like with Gamepass games it works for me, better than having to deal with delays.

None of those companies are Sony though, and tons of pc gamers may have existing ps libraries

Not sure what other perks they could try

 

[DenchDeckard]

Do we think that sonys strategy of putting their games on pc is driving pc gamers to buy ps5s for their sequels?

I don't think so. It's seems like interest in Sonys sequels are flattening more than anything else.

Ghost of tsushima did well on PC didn't it? Need to see how Yotei performs.

 

[yurinka]

I definitely think they will try the store and launcher thing, they all do eventually.
Legacy titles exclusive to their own launcher would be clever.

But I still think such a thing would fail unless they still sell everything on Steam too. Steam is too big to ignore now, and it’ll get even bigger when SteamOS roll out on handhelds and new devices.

I don’t understand why they removed the PSN requirement though, on the latest and upcoming releases. The requirement was a typical move to have some platform holder walls up. And they remove the walls, huh? That was a surprise. Maybe they see that it affect the sales numbers too much or increase negativity around the releases?

If day 1 ain’t happening then shorter delays is a must imo. Don’t know how big the gap should be but a year is too much. I’ll watch the Indy release on PS5 with great interest. First example of a 6 months delay for a SP release. Should show if there can be any hype left after that time. I think it’s too late but we’ll see.

I think the PSN requirement is understandable for online game in order to collect metrics and ban cheaters. But in single player games make more sense what they did, to keep it optional with some incentives.

I assume in the future they'll keep more incentives, like to include PSN cloud saves being cross-save with PS to have incentive to get PS+ on PC or stuff like that.

Regarding the delay, they have been testing different distances and they'll end getting what is better for them. I think for MP / GaaS makes sense day one everywhere, but in SP games I think they must keep some distance between console (and their future PC store) and the other PC stores, in order to give an advdantage to their own store/platform, which I assume must keep some extra perks.

 

[Fess]

None of those companies are Sony though, and tons of pc gamers may have existing ps libraries

Not sure what other perks they could try

I mean they could try. But I think it’ll end up like every other one. Could use it as an alternative if they go parallell on Steam, that’s what the other ones do now. Steam is honestly too big to avoid at this point. It’s like avoiding PlayStation in the console space. The negativity coming from not being there is too much to handle PR wise, social spaces and YouTube are on fire. It’ll be interesting to see the GTA6 release…

 

[Three]

And it ended up being that he tells a story for modern audiences... You know, just a modern audience without any DEI or insertion of that kind, just not a story for boomers who watched Indiana Jones in the cinema 44 years ago.

You were part of the DEI / Woke / Cancel movement for Indiana Jones, absolute brainrot.

Except it had a lesbian in it. What exactly were you expecting.

 

[Kenpachii]

Games runs rough, framegen+dlss quality sit at 75-120 fps with everything maxed out. Way worse performance then spiderman 1 and miles morales which sit around 150-220.

 

[MMaRsu]

Good strategy would be Day 1 on PS Store on PC with lots of perks (Cross-buy PS/PS5, Cross-Saves, etc). Work with third parties to get their games on their PC store as well (with same Cross/Buy features).

Then release their games 2 years later on Steam

Nobody on pc wants a Sony store. Get real

 

[winjer]

The 2060 is nowhere near a PS5, my guy. In fact, even the 2070 is slower and the 2070S is around equal. That’s not even getting into the VRAM.

The 5700 XT is not faster than the PS5’s GPU either.

DF did a whole piece. 6700=2070S=PS5’s GPU.

The comparisons that DF made are extremely flawed, mostly due to memory performance and PCI bandwidth.
I would never take their comparisons seriously, when they are so badly made.

 

[Gaiff]

The comparisons that DF made are extremely flawed, mostly due to memory performance and PCI bandwidth.
I would never take their comparisons seriously, when they are so badly made.

The 2070S comparisons are accurate though. They used a proper CPU, not that desktop kit. The 6700 definitely was massively held back in some circumstances where it lost badly, but even in PC benchmarks, it’s close to the 2070S.

 

[winjer]

The 2070S comparisons are accurate though. They used a proper CPU, not that desktop kit. The 6700 definitely was massively held back in some circumstances where it lost badly, but even in PC benchmarks, it’s close to the 2070S.

They didn't. They used a 3600X with a memory latency of 90ns, reported by themselves.
A normal 3600X should be around 70 ns, with just XMP. In the 60s with a bit of tweaking.

For example, one of the complaints that Alex made with A plague tale requiem, was that in the market place, where they benchmark, the 3600X and 2070S would drop to 50 fps.
At the time, I had a similar PC, and a 2070S and a 3700X. And I was running that exact section at 70 fps. And it's not the first time they showed lower performance than expected.
And of course, having much slower memory, also means more stuttering. So no wonder Alex is constantly complaining about stutters, in almost every game, even on games where other people don't have them.

And the benchmarks with the 6700 and the 4800S, was a complete fuck up, by DF.
Seriously, they put that GPU on a 4 lanes PCIe CPU. The level of incompetence is unbelievable.

 

[Gaiff]

They didn't. They used a 3600X with a memory latency of 90ns, reported by themselves.
A normal 3600X should be around 70 ns, with just XMP. In the 60s with a bit of tweaking.

For example, one of the complaints that Alex made with A plague tale requiem, was that in the market place, where they benchmark, the 3600X and 2070S would drop to 50 fps.
At the time, I had a similar PC, and a 2070S and a 3700X. And I was running that exact section at 70 fps. And it's not the first time they showed lower performance than expected.
And of course, having much slower memory, also means more stuttering. So no wonder Alex is constantly complaining about stutters, in almost every game, even on games where other people don't have them.

And the benchmarks with the 6700 and the 4800S, was a complete fuck up, by DF.
Seriously, they put that GPU on a 4 lanes PCIe CPU. The level of incompetence is unbelievable.

They didn’t use a bad system in this one.



13900K+32GB 6000MHz.

 

[winjer]

They didn’t use a bad system in this one.



13900K+32GB 6000MHz.

They used a 13900K and 6000Mhz memory to compare with the PS5.
WTF? That is a terrible comparison point. That is even worse, just in the opposite direction.
How can they be so incompetent...

 

[Gaiff]

They used a 13900K and 6000Mhz memory to compare with the PS5.
WTF? That is a terrible comparison point. That is even worse, just in the opposite direction.
How can they be so incompetent...

You still got results that aren’t too dissimilar to the desktop kit except in those few cases like BMW where it gets annihilated. You don’t have to take one test or the other, but when the results are broadly similar whether the tests were done on a 13900K or a 4700S, you can infer that those GPUs all have a similar performance profile.

Their specs are also close and the 2070S according to aggregate benchmarks is in the same ballpark as the 6700, so I think PS5 being generally equivalent to the 6700 and 2070S is accurate. It’s a lot stronger than the 2060, that’s for damn sure.

 

[winjer]

You still got results that aren’t too dissimilar to the desktop kit except in those few cases like BMW where it gets annihilated. You don’t have to take one test or the other, but when the results are broadly similar whether the tests were done on a 13900K or a 4700S, you can infer that those GPUs all have a similar performance profile.

Their specs are also close and the 2070S according to aggregate benchmarks is in the same ballpark as the 6700, so I think PS5 being generally equivalent to the 6700 and 2070S is accurate. It’s a lot stronger than the 2060, that’s for damn sure.

Their specs are no where near what a console system.
And there are way too many problems for their results to be taken seriously.

 

[Bojji]

They used a 13900K and 6000Mhz memory to compare with the PS5.
WTF? That is a terrible comparison point. That is even worse, just in the opposite direction.
How can they be so incompetent...

They tested GPU, not CPU, they used places where PS5 was GPU limited.

Their specs are no where near what a console system.
And there are way too many problems for their results to be taken seriously.

NO. You have GPU power of PS5 vs. GPU power of 6700. It's as simple as that.

We know that vast majority of console games are limited by GPU in their 60fps modes, not CPU.

 

[Gaiff]

Their specs are no where near what a console system.
And there are way too many problems for their results to be taken seriously.

The results are similar whether they use a 13900K or a desktop kit. We’re not looking for a system comparison, we’re looking for a GPU comparison. The 6700 and PS5’s GPU are also similar specs-wise.

So 6700 and PS5 being generally in the same ballpark is accurate.

 

[winjer]

They tested GPU, not CPU, they used places where PS5 was GPU limited.

NO. You have GPU power of PS5 vs. GPU power of 6700. It's as simple as that.

We know that vast majority of console games are limited by GPU in their 60fps modes, not CPU.

CPU, memory and GPU, and PCIe bandwidth all contribute to the final performance.
And if one or more are seriously compromised, like DF has with their memory on the 3600X or the PCI lanes on the 4800S, then it's a major problem.

 

[Bojji]

CPU, memory and GPU, and PCIe bandwidth all contribute to the final performance.
And if one or more are seriously compromised, like DF has with their memory on the 3600X or the PCI lanes on the 4800S, then it's a major problem.

Yeah, I didn't like those tests as well.

But as mentioned above with 13900K we have pure GPU comparison.

 

[winjer]

Yeah, I didn't like those tests as well.

But as mentioned above with 13900K we have pure GPU comparison.

But with the 13900K, the PS5 will be at a disadvantage whenever there is a CPU heavy scene.

It's impossible to create a PC that is identical to a PS5. But it's possible to have something similar.
DF is not even trying to have a similar system.
Not to mention that their test setup is not properly configured, as a normal PC would be.

 

[Bojji]

But with the 13900K, the PS5 will be at a disadvantage whenever there is a CPU heavy scene.

It's impossible to create a PC that is identical to a PS5. But it's possible to have something similar.
DF is not even trying to have a similar system.
Not to mention that their test setup is not properly configured, as a normal PC would be.

GPU scenes will be GPU limited no matter what CPU you use (as long as it's above GPU limit). Other than Cyberpunk driving scene all their tests were GPU limited. I don't think they are stupid enough to do tests in CPU limited scenes using 13900K vs. low end Z2...

 

[winjer]

GPU scenes will be GPU limited no matter what CPU you use (as long as it's above GPU limit). Other than Cyberpunk driving scene all their tests were GPU limited. I don't think they are stupid enough to do tests in CPU limited scenes using 13900K vs. low end Z2...

Yes, GPU scenes will be GPU limited.
And CPU limited scenes will be limited by the CPU. And so on for the memory, and the PCIe bandwidth, or the SSD speed, etc.
But the fact remains that for a proper comparison, all components should be as close as possible.
The 6700 is a great choice. But the 3600X in a badly configured system, or the 4800S, are not good options.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

That’s not true though. The 2070S even gets beaten by the PS5 in Cyberpunk with RT shadows. The API the PS5 uses for RT is much leaner and flexible than DXR that a developer described as a "black box”.

I havent found 2070S gameplay at 1440p with RT, but at 1080p DLSSQuality with ultra RT the RTX2070S has 55-60fps.



The PS5 version runs at 1440p 30fps but only has RT shadows (the cheapest RT effect in this game). What makes you think the RTX2070S would not run this game at 1440p 30fps with RT shadows?

 

[Gaiff]

I havent found 2070S gameplay at 1440p with RT, but at 1080p DLSSQuality with ultra RT the RTX2070S has 55-60fps.



The PS5 version runs at 1440p 30fps but only has RT shadows (the cheapest RT effect in this game). What makes you think the RTX2070S would not run this game at 1440p 30fps with RT shadows?

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I see now, the PS5 isnt running at 1440p, but at 4K FSRQ. It's 1440p internally, but image reconstruction has it's one performance cost (and quite big).

Edit- I found this image and I'm confused again. 60fps target in RT mode on the PS5? Also they list DRS being used and 1440p reconstructed with FRSQ, not 4K reconstructed with FSRQ.

 

[Bojji]

Yes, GPU scenes will be GPU limited.
And CPU limited scenes will be limited by the CPU. And so on for the memory, and the PCIe bandwidth, or the SSD speed, etc.
But the fact remains that for a proper comparison, all components should be as close as possible.
The 6700 is a great choice. But the 3600X in a badly configured system, or the 4800S, are not good options.

Those things are factors but for like few % at most vs. what GPU and CPU are doing.

You also can't really compare memory of PS5 vs. PC when you have high BW memory with high latency used for CPU on a console while on PC you have low latency, low BW memory. Consoles don't have PCIE interface for GPU as well.

SSD speed is still mostly irrelevant above certain speed, SATA SSDs are still like 90% of the NVME speed in games:

 

[Gaiff]

I see now, the PS5 isnt running at 1440p, but at 4K FSRQ. It's 1440p internally, but image reconstruction has it's one performance cost (and quite big).

Edit- I found this image and I'm confused again. 60fps target in RT mode on the PS5? Also they list DRS being used and 1440p reconstructed with FRSQ, not 4K reconstructed with FSRQ.

I believe that's outdated. They did a few changes for Phantom Liberty.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Except it had a lesbian in it. What exactly were you expecting.

It had a lesbian in it? Oh my god!

Those never existed before modern times!

 

[Three]

It had a lesbian in it? Oh my god!

Those never existed before modern times!

Hey I'm not the one setting the rules regarding this shit am I? I'm the one who's saying people selectively outrage depending on the game.

Oh my god ugly women didn't exist before Star Wars, oh my god black people didn't exist until Shadows. Oh my god Black indigenous people of colour didn’t exist until spiderman. Same shit different day, yet you bat for one specifically.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Hey I'm not the one setting the rules regarding this shit am I? I'm the one who's saying people selectively outrage depending on the game.

Oh my god ugly women didn't exist before Star Wars, oh my god black people didn't exist until Shadows. Oh my god Black indigenous people of colour didn’t exist until spiderman. Same shit different day, yet you bat for one specifically.

You won't find me in AC shadow threads complaining about a black dude, quite funny though that Ubisoft didn't just say lol, its a game, we took liberties. Nor will you see me throw under the bus Fable's female protagonist. Nor Avowed / Hogwarts legacy / Baldur's gate 3 / Starfield/ Cyberpunk 2077's choice to make a character, nor Kingdom come deliverance 2 having a choice to go on the other side of sexuality, until there's a threshold where its 1) forced, 2) dialogues about it become plastered all over the game, does not even follow a natural conversation, just inserted like a checklist, see Dragon age veilguard and Spider-man 2.

But we do see you try to throw Indiana Jones under the bus for DEI multiple times. You don't make the rules, but you are on the side of grifters without any substantial comparisons or logic. "pEoPles TUrn a BlInD eYe to INdiAna JonEs bUt noT my sPidEr-mAN 2". Are you serious? A lesbian note that is completely irrelevant to the side quests or main story compared to the fucking mile long list of shit straight in your face in Spider-man 2? Cute. Peoples who can't tell the difference are the same ones making the google list of DEI games. Add Elden Ring to the list

Peoples, like you, who shit on Edward Curtis-Sivess and threw the game under the bus with a grifting campaign on youtube and it aged like milk. Own up to it. Not even Smash JT is that dense and recognized its a good game.

 

[Three]

You won't find me in AC shadow threads complaining about a black dude, quite funny though that Ubisoft didn't just say lol, its a game, we took liberties. Nor will you see me throw under the bus Fable's female protagonist. Nor Avowed / Hogwarts legacy / Baldur's gate 3 / Starfield/ Cyberpunk 2077's choice to make a character, nor Kingdom come deliverance 2 having a choice to go on the other side of sexuality, until there's a threshold where its 1) forced, 2) dialogues about it become plastered all over the game, does not even follow a natural conversation, just inserted like a checklist, see Dragon age veilguard and Spider-man 2.

But we do see you try to throw Indiana Jones under the bus for DEI multiple times. You don't make the rules, but you are on the side of grifters without any substantial comparisons or logic. "pEoPles TUrn a BlInD eYe to INdiAna JonEs bUt noT my sPidEr-mAN 2". Are you serious? A lesbian note that is completely irrelevant to the side quests or main story compared to the fucking mile long list of shit straight in your face in Spider-man 2? Cute. Peoples who can't tell the difference are the same ones making the google list of DEI games. Add Elden Ring to the list

Peoples, like you, who shit on Edward Curtis-Sivess and threw the game under the bus with a grifting campaign on youtube and it aged like milk. Own up to it. Not even Smash JT is that dense and recognized its a good game.

I'm a grifter on youtube now? wtf are you talking about.

 

[Buggy Loop]

On the side of grifters = being a grifter

Yes Three, you got it

 

[Goalus]

In the global topsellers list it now ranks next to Hello Kitty Island Adventure - which seems to be a good game, so altogether it's a solid performance.

 

[ChiefDada]

Games runs rough, framegen+dlss quality sit at 75-120 fps with everything maxed out. Way worse performance then spiderman 1 and miles morales which sit around 150-220.

What were you all expecting? It's a port of a PS5 only, open world game from 1st party using far more RT, and most importantly a shit ton more streaming/decompression than it's predecessor.

 

[Buggy Loop]

DirectStorage implementation here takes more VRAM and tanks performances.