Support NeoGAF

[genesisblock]

Who "forced" Yasuke into the game?

Um.. Ubisoft. Are we really asking this question? Or do I need to go back why this should have a Japanese male lead as with most of the AC games did with their leads? And if you bring up Naoe, she is not a replacement in a world where gender norms are clearly split. So that argument goes away.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

It's an undisputed knowledge that Yasuke was a forced implementation here

"undisputed knowledge" lmao, gtfo with this clown shit bruv

Also don't quote me if you can't help yourself to talk about something I wasn't, go have this silly conversation with yourself weirdo.

 

[Topher]

Um.. Ubisoft. Are we really asking this question? Or do I need to go back why this should have a Japanese male lead as with most of the AC games did with their leads? And if you bring up Naoe, she is not a replacement in a world where gender norms are clearly split. So that argument goes away.

I don't think "forced" is the right word. That implies it wasn't their choice. Clearly it was. You and others not liking the choice is a different matter.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

I don't think "forced" is the right word. That implies it wasn't their choice. Clearly it was. You and others not liking the choice is a different matter.

I think what he's saying is that Yasuke was injected into the story spotlight where he had no narrative business being; meaning Ubi broke the trend they followed with the design of previous games deliberately for factors that are outside of what decisions would have lead to the best outcome for an AC game set in Japan.

TL;DR: Ubi chose a culture wars side, not business.

 

[Topher]

I think what he's saying is that Yasuke was injected into the story spotlight where he had no narrative business being; meaning Ubi broke the trend they followed with the design of previous games deliberately for factors that are outside of what decisions would have lead to the best outcome for an AC game set in Japan.

TL;DR: Ubi chose a culture wars side, not business.

All that goes back to simply not liking their choice. To me, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Yasuke's inclusion as a main character. I don't buy this idea that Ubisoft sought a culture war with this as there is nothing in the game's story that I have seen so far that pushes one. Contrast that with Veilguard and this is why I'm on a different side of the argument with Veilguard than I am here.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

All that goes back to simply not liking their choice. To me, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Yasuke's inclusion as a main character. I don't buy this idea that Ubisoft sought a culture war with this as there is nothing in the game's story that I have seen so far that pushes one. Contrast that with Veilguard and this is why I'm on a different side of the argument with Veilguard than I am here.

I vehemently disagree because if it were a white man in place of Yasuke they simply wouldn't have had made the same choice, and they are not going to/were never going to make a similar choice like this had the game been set in deep Africa for example with an Asian good guy slave turned protagonist killing black people, even if historically accurate. There is a myriad of more reasons I could list that have gone on and on in circles around these parts but I'll stop here. If you truly don't think this is the case then it is what it is.

 

[Topher]

I vehemently disagree because if it were a white man in place of Yasuke they simply wouldn't have had made the same choice, and they are not going to/were never going to make a similar choice like this had the game been set in deep Africa for example with an Asian good guy slave turned protagonist killing black people, even if historically accurate. There is a myriad of more reasons I could list that have gone on and on in circles around these parts but I'll stop here. If you truly don't think this is the case then it is what it is.

Yasuke has been the subject of many works of fiction in video games and media in general my man. Based on a real guy. Sorry, but I'm just not going to understand the outrage here in this one game because Ubisoft choose to use a character that has been used many times before.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

Yasuke has been the subject of many works of fiction in video games and media in general my man. Based on a real guy. Sorry, but I'm just not going to understand the outrage here in this one game because Ubisoft choose to use a character that has been used many times before.

Yes and featuring him as a protagonist does break the trend and as far as I go I don't believe in benign coincidences in how the world works, I do agree that Yasuke does have a precedence in existing in media but at the same time he makes absolute zero sense being a protagonist in an AC game. There is also the whole fiasco with Thomas Lockley gassing up Yasuke's history by fabricating lies that has really poisoned the well regarding him and stank up this whole mess even more.

I've personally gone numb to Ubi since around 2019 and this game didn't help in the slightest to re-engage me. I can't in good conscious say that Ubi made all the decisions regarding AC: Shadows only for the love of making the best game they could and zero external factors.

 

[Topher]

Yes and featuring him as a protagonist does break the trend and as far as I go I don't believe in benign coincidences in how the world works, I do agree that Yasuke does have a precedence in existing in media but at the same time he makes absolute zero sense being a protagonist in an AC game. There is also the whole fiasco with Thomas Lockley gassing up Yasuke's history by fabricating lies that has really poisoned the well regarding him and stank up this whole mess even more.

I've personally gone numb to Ubi since around 2019 and this game didn't help in the slightest to re-engage me. I can't in good conscious say that Ubi made all the decisions regarding AC: Shadows only for the love of making the best game they could and zero external factors.

If the argument is that he doesn't fit an AC game then that's fine. Having played the game, I tend to agree as I'm playing entirely as Naoe. Yasuke is just a tank character and to me, he isn't fun to play in an AC game. However, that's actual criticism from playing the game.

I'm not going to rehash all the Lockley samurai stuff because it is pointless. This is a work of fiction. Ubisoft should have been clearer about that from the beginning, but it wouldn't have made a difference. External factors that have nothing to do with how good the actual game is are the basis for the criticism of it being "woke" so that works both ways.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You mean this petition?

I mean, I get the complaints about the shrine destruction; that shit was tasteless on Ubisoft's part. But like they even admit, that stuff was quickly removed for the actual release.

In terms of offense I say it was the same as Kakuto Chojin using that Islamic chant in a song. Obviously not intentional, but changed to save face & PR. Now, actually using that as a reason to not even play the game when it was both non-intentional and changed after complaints...

Well, anyone can be a bit of a snowflake. Yes, including a Japanese person.

Im just saying women warriors were tiny minority durning feudal japan period, overwhelming majority were men, yet we got no option to play as proper japanese male samurai, like at all, hence no pity from me for ubi here, they themselfs are at fault here for not using logic.

I will keep saying, Ubi going out of their way to somehow not have a Japanese male samurai protagonist in any capacity, for their first AssCreed set in feudal Japan, is all kinds of 'tard. That was them basically inviting complaints and controversy no matter what.

And I do still feel they kinda hid behind a black man and a woman to obfuscate legitimate critiques with the obvious bigoted ones, and that doesn't sit right with me. But it's also kind of a "shitty folks on both sides" type of thing at this point, so I just mostly sat back and watched the pile-up of a car crash in real time.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

I'm not going to rehash all the Lockley samurai stuff because it is pointless. This is a work of fiction. Ubisoft should have been clearer about that from the beginning, but it wouldn't have made a difference. External factors that have nothing to do with how good the actual game is are the basis for the criticism of it being "woke" so that works both ways.

This is actually an interesting point. I think if they had been very clear about taking more creative liberties than the previous installments then the backlash would've likely been lessened. They also could've gone the route of saying this was a spin-off series or heck called it "Yasuke: A Samurai's Creed" or something. Guess we'll never know now...

 

[Topher]

This is actually an interesting point. I think if they had been very clear about taking more creative liberties than the previous installments then the backlash would've likely been lessened. They also could've gone the route of saying this was a spin-off series or heck called it "Yasuke: A Samurai's Creed" or something. Guess we'll never know now...

Yeah, they fumbled all of that out of the gate and bad timing considering their financial situation.

 

[genesisblock]

Yasuke has been the subject of many works of fiction in video games and media in general my man. Based on a real guy. Sorry, but I'm just not going to understand the outrage here in this one game because Ubisoft choose to use a character that has been used many times before.

As a main character of a video game, only 2 that I know of. This game and that Yasuke simulator. If you don't know he significance of being the main character and conflate it to be just another "inclusion" then Ubisoft would've just make him appear as a side character just like Leonardo da Vinci, George Washington and many other historical figures. As San Dan said, this broke the trend of having a non-fictional charafter being a playable one as well. The fact that they were putting him front and centre just so they can claim "Black Samurai" puts it squarely in the DEI category and should be criticized in the same manner as Veilguard and Outlaws.

 

[laynelane]

This is actually an interesting point. I think if they had been very clear about taking more creative liberties than the previous installments then the backlash would've likely been lessened. They also could've gone the route of saying this was a spin-off series or heck called it "Yasuke: A Samurai's Creed" or something. Guess we'll never know now...

I don't think they thought they were taking many creative liberties when they first announced the game. They advertised that they were telling the story of the first black samurai - a real historical figure named Yasuke. After the push back and the reveals about Lockley's fanfic on the subject - that's when they started to lean into the fictional description. That clarification was in their apology to Japan released on social media, for example.

Everyone will have different perspectives on this. I believe this is a case of virtue signalling gone wrong. As well, it remains to be seen whether Ubi will learn anything from the endless controversy surrounding this title. Other people see it differently which is fine and as it should be. We're all different people bringing different perspectives to the table, after all.

 

[WellSheet]

The difference is this isn't a political forum. If it were then I would be out of place being 'burnout' on the subject, but it simply isn't. The politics is what is feeding this, not the game itself as most of the people talking about the politics are not playing the game.

Sure, but that old saying politics is downstream from culture is alive and well. And while I understand your viewpoint on "people are just bitching about things they don't like about game they haven't played just fuel the outrage culture" - people are allowed to express their speech and their viewpoints, just as you are by stating yours.

The importance of this battle of woke v non-woke being fruitless and futile by your definition is one worth fighting or a straw-that-breaks-a-camels-back type situations for others (not me personally). You are free, I'd estimate you do based on your replies, feel you're objectively correct in your assessment on this topic; others feel they are just as morally correct in theirs.

 

[WellSheet]

I don't think they thought they were taking many creative liberties when they first announced the game. They advertised that they were telling the story of the first black samurai - a real historical figure named Yasuke. After the push back and the reveals about Lockley's fanfic on the subject - that's when they started to lean into the fictional description. That clarification was in their apology to Japan released on social media, for example.

Everyone will have different perspectives on this. I believe this is a case of virtue signalling gone wrong. As well, it remains to be seen whether Ubi will learn anything from the endless controversy surrounding this title. Other people see it differently which is fine and as it should be. We're all different people bringing different perspectives to the table, after all.

Bootifully said!

 

[laynelane]

Bootifully said!

OT but is that cutie your kitty in your avatar?

 

[WellSheet]

OT but is that cutie your kitty in your avatar?

It is! She loves my wife and tolerates me but I still love her dearly

 

[Topher]

As a main character of a video game, only 2 that I know of. This game and that Yasuke simulator. If you don't know he significance of being the main character and conflate it to be just another "inclusion" then Ubisoft would've just make him appear as a side character just like Leonardo da Vinci, George Washington and many other historical figures. As San Dan said, this broke the trend of having a non-fictional charafter being a playable one as well. The fact that they were putting him front and centre just so they can claim "Black Samurai" puts it squarely in the DEI category and should be criticized in the same manner as Veilguard and Outlaws.

Eh...breaking a trend they themselves established is nothing to get in a twist over. I actually could see folks having an issue with the game if Ubisoft just invented a non-Asian person out of thin air as a protaganist, but I see nothing wrong with a historically real Yasuke here. I can also see the case of using Yasuke to avoid too much sameness with Ghost of Tsushima. But really....it just doesn't matter either way. I just don't like all this identity politics.

It's fine. We won't see eye to eye on this. Moving on.

Sure, but that old saying politics is downstream from culture is alive and well. And while I understand your viewpoint on "people are just bitching about things they don't like about game they haven't played just fuel the outrage culture" - people are allowed to express their speech and their viewpoints, just as you are by stating yours.

The importance of this battle of woke v non-woke being fruitless and futile by your definition is one worth fighting or a straw-that-breaks-a-camels-back type situations for others (not me personally). You are free, I'd estimate you do based on your replies, feel you're objectively correct in your assessment on this topic; others feel they are just as morally correct in theirs.

Incorrect. First, I didn't say anyone wasn't allowed to state their views. I'm not calling for mods here to shut anyone up. My point was that this forum is becoming more and more about woke vs chuds than about video games themselves and I just wish that were not the case. Second, there is very little that can be said to be "objectively correct" here outside of absolute facts. The opinions stated here by myself and others are just that: opinions. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

Has anyone checked in on Manabyte?

 

[Topher]

Has anyone checked in on Manabyte?

He is posting on twitter

 

[Topher]

It is! She loves my wife and tolerates me but I still love her dearly

Is this a picture of her "tolerating" you?

 

[adamsapple]

Has anyone checked in on Manabyte?

Probably hanging out with The Chairman, somewhere.

 

[WellSheet]

Is this a picture of her "tolerating" you?

That picture was taken right before she basically killed me. I am but a specter now

 

[PeteBull]

That picture was taken right before she basically killed me. I am but a specter now

Fuck, man, u took "simping for a pussy" to a whole other lvl

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

We are still arguing about historic liberties in a saga about mind controlling apples and ancient precursors masked as jolly variety of human gods?

Really?

 

[DeafTourette]

From what I've read from people who've actually PLAYED the game have said, it's a good game. Some say great.

Yet the culture war is focused on Yasuke (not Naoue) and the fact he's a samurai in the game when, according to some non-scholars, he was just some slave or "pet" of Nobunaga (colorful language). The historical record says he had a role in Nobunaga's court (he had a stipend, sword and land... According to The Shinchō Kōki of the Sonkeikaku Bunko, not Lockley) and was allowed to leave with his life back to the same missionaries who brought him with them (by the opposing warlord) as Nobunaga was now no longer ruler.

 

[Baemono]

Can we change the name of the thread to "Assassin's Creed debuts with 17k physical in Japan ?" at least ? That would be closer to the truth.

 

[WellSheet]

Fuck, man, u took "simping for a pussy" to a whole other lvl

If your pussy looked like the block enemy from Mario 64, you'd simp too.

 

[Lethal01]

Yeah, they fumbled all of that out of the gate and bad timing considering their financial situation.

Gotta disagree, they have always been very clear that the game isn't pure history and people just take "we try to be as historically accurate as possible" the wrong way. They weave in as much historical accuracy as they can into a story that is first and foremost fiction.

Ghost of tsushima made the same claims while being just as fictional as this game, and previous asscreed games were no more historically accurate, they contained just as much wild shit.

People were simply more bothered this time so they hat to spell it out for them.

 

[Topher]

Gotta diragree they have always been very clear that the game isn't pure history and people just take "we try to be as historically accurate as possible" the wrong way. They weave in as much historical accuracy as they can into a story that is first and foremost fiction.

Ghost of tsushima made the same claims while being just as fictional as this game, and previous asscreed games were no more historically accurate, they contained just as much wild shit.

People were simply more bothered this time so they hat to spell it out for them.

Hmm, ok. Others have indicated that there was some inconsistencies from Ubisoft when it comes to this game. TBF, I haven't looked into it. Just taking that as the case. Mainly because it is a minor point regardless as I know Ubisoft clarified later on. So if they did fuck up the messaging or didn't, it doesn't really matter. Doesn't change my opinion either way that this whole thing is incredibly overblown.

 

[Lethal01]

Hmm, ok. Others have indicated that there was some inconsistencies from Ubisoft when it comes to this game. TBF, I haven't looked into it. Just taking that as the case. M

Oh there definitely were, as there have always been, dont get me started on all the nonsense in black flag not to mention how that game also had a main character that was non-native to the land but it's fine cause its totally not "a game about pirates, not about the carribean" right?

Anyway i'm tired of all the "this is only happening cause x company wants woke points" claims.

I've heard dev talking about wanting to make a Yasuke game for years cause his story is neat, as was the white Samurai's but nowaday people can't stand the idea that devs may enjoy different things than they do.

 

[genesisblock]

Eh...breaking a trend they themselves established is nothing to get in a twist over. I actually could see folks having an issue with the game if Ubisoft just invented a non-Asian person out of thin air as a protaganist, but I see nothing wrong with a historically real Yasuke here. I can also see the case of using Yasuke to avoid too much sameness with Ghost of Tsushima. But really....it just doesn't matter either way. I just don't like all this identity politics.

It's fine. We won't see eye to yee on this. Moving on.

That's fine. For the the record, I don't argue for the sake of argument. AC was literally the first HD game I've played when the PS3 was released so I have a very nostalgic feeling to the series. I pretty much played every single game in the series, including that awful mobile phone game sans Shadows. So watching it fall from grace does not please me. My arguments are never about owning the woke but to criticize them so that they can be convinced too aim for bringing back the series to it's former glory. If this was done by Sucker Punch instead of Ubisoft, no doubt it would've been handled a lot better given the reception of GoT.