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[Gaiff]

no, its not uncertain, he was a servant/retainer of Oda that served him for about 1 year and vanished after Oda death, the only piece of paper that say he was a samurai is a book wrote by some white dude, the same book that is used as "material" for this game.

Completely untrue and I wish people did their research before spreading misinformation.

There is ample evidence pointing to him having been a samurai including:

He was given a stipend, which from the Japanese was called a "fuchi", the word used to denote the pay of samurai on a permanent payroll, not temporary servants. He was also given a sword by Nobunaga, and finally a residence. Last, but not least, according to a letter (not Thomas Lockley), the residents also believed that Nobunaga would have made him a tono, or minor lord. Those aren't privileges given to regular servants. All those are documented facts, not fiction made up by Lockley, the "white dude", to sell his book.

So it 100% is debatable and evidence strongly suggests that he was made one. The part that is contentious is him being a foreigner, but since Oda Nobunaga was hated for favoring westerners and angered traditionalists, this would be on brand for him anyway.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Yet 2 months after 9/11 metal gear solid 2 came out with Arsenal Gear shoving its ass up lower Manhattan. Not really that big a deal in the media.

But some damn shrines in a video game. Japan needs to just shut the fuck up. Absolute garbage.

Yeah. They are pretty hypocritical. They also are ok with sexualizing young anime girls and hentai but zero tolerance for drugs. Being caught with weed can get you five years in jail.

But yeah....don't damage anything in a shrine or show blood from NPC's.

 

[sendit]

The premise to getting this game was to play as Yasuke while terrorizing locals and defiling shrines. That has been taken away because a Japanese priest is upset…lol

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Exactly, in the DLC. They put all the supernatural shit in the DLC, just like Origins and Odyssey, but you'd know that since you've played them all.

That's not true, there's been "supernatural shit" in the base game of every single AC, even in black flag where you can encounter the ghost ship and stuff, odyssey had the legendary animals and 4 mythical beasts etc, and valhalla has the same and you have the entire asgard saga which isn't dlc, all of the mythical gear like thor's hammer, and that little thing where odin himself is trying to take over your body.
No dlc required.

 

[DryvBy]

Honestly, removing the gore and the ability to chop up anything in my path is the only reason I would have played the game. So I guess when it's $10 physical, I'll check it out so I can play it in it's original state.

 

[Gaiff]

He knows this, but he has no other argument though so he's doubling down. The fact is Ubisoft has pushed the new version of AC, which is everything from Origins forward as being as "authentic and historically accurate" as possible. They even started an initiative in 2017 of pushing the Discovery Tours in schools as historical and educational tools.

No, even the base game is pure fantasy. It starts with you playing as Leonidas mowing down an enemy army. You're the descendant of a demi-god and Pythagoras is your thousand-years old ancestor. The base game doesn't even pretend to be historically accurate. Stop this shit.

The tours are used as promo material to recreate historical locations. The games aren't even remotely accurate and have been actually even worse since Odyssey with mythological bullshit thrown at the forefront. At least before, this stuff was merely hidden knowledge. Now, it's all up in your face.

diffusionx surely, you can do better than that weak trolling, yes?

 

[Nowa]

Thx you grifters morons for actually making the game worse.

The game is already awful.

Ubisoft caving to this shit is ultimate retardation though

I'd say putting an african samurai as main character is already the ultimate retardation.

 

[Black_Stride]

Wait all NPC blood is gone now and we cant even injure them?

The game is already awful.


I'd say putting an african samurai as main character is already the ultimate retardation.

Naoe is the main character.
Yasuke is practically a side character in her story.
Most of the intro is actually Naoe and without finishing the game id hazard a guess she is the one who ends up in the Hidden Ones(Assassins) going forward.
People vehemently against Yasuke are just unmasking themselves.

 

[neocycle]

I understand your anger when it comes to censorship but at the same time, I understand Ubisoft decision because even the government in Japan has complained about this. I dont think that removing this will make the game any worse man, who wants to kill innocent people in a Assassins Creed game?

I am fine with this tbh

It sets a precedence.
It's bad enough that China, Turkey and Saudi Arabia can do this.

Ubisoft should have taken the heat.

 

[JayK47]

The most entertaining AC game by far and it is all free.

 

[Bond007]

I dont see the outrage.
Small change to appease some people- big people in Japan. Is what it is and doesnt really change anything in the grand scheme of things.
They are in the business of making money

 

[ManaByte]

Completely untrue and I wish people did their research before spreading misinformation.

There is ample evidence pointing to him having been a samurai including:

He was given a stipend, which from the Japanese was called a "fuchi", the word used to denote the pay of samurai on a permanent payroll, not temporary servants. He was also given a sword by Nobunaga, and finally a residence. Last, but not least, according to a letter (not Thomas Lockley), the residents also believed that Nobunaga would have made him a tono, or minor lord. Those aren't privileges given to regular servants. All those are documented facts, not fiction made up by Lockley, the "white dude", to sell his book.

So it 100% is debatable and evidence strongly suggests that he was made one. The part that is contentious is him being a foreigner, but since Oda Nobunaga was hated for favoring westerners and angered traditionalists, this would be on brand for him anyway.

Get that woke propaganda out of here.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Completely untrue and I wish people did their research before spreading misinformation.

There is ample evidence pointing to him having been a samurai including:

He was given a stipend, which from the Japanese was called a "fuchi", the word used to denote the pay of samurai on a permanent payroll, not temporary servants. He was also given a sword by Nobunaga, and finally a residence. Last, but not least, according to a letter (not Thomas Lockley), the residents also believed that Nobunaga would have made him a tono, or minor lord. Those aren't privileges given to regular servants. All those are documented facts, not fiction made up by Lockley, the "white dude", to sell his book.

So it 100% is debatable and evidence strongly suggests that he was made one. The part that is contentious is him being a foreigner, but since Oda Nobunaga was hated for favoring westerners and angered traditionalists, this would be on brand for him anyway.

 

[Gaiff]

So no arguments whatsoever? Carry on then.

 

[Atrus]

Why exactly can’t the player characters kill civilians? Is it because one of the player characters is a foreigner?

 

[ReBurn]

What if the only reason someone bought the game was to mindlessly spill NPC blood and be culturally insensitive?

 

[adamsapple]

Why exactly can’t the player characters kill civilians? Is it because one of the player characters is a foreigner?

If I'm reading the OP correctly, you can still attack (kill?) them, it just won't have the blood sprays like combatants.

 

[Gaiff]

Why exactly can’t the player characters kill civilians? Is it because one of the player characters is a foreigner?

It's a bit more nuanced than that. You technically couldn't really kill civilians in the other games either because killing something like 3 in a row resulted in a desynchronization, essentially the equivalent of a game over. With this patch, they made it so there won't be bloodshed when attacking unarmed civilians. You also can no longer destroy shrines.

 

[Fake]

So no arguments whatsoever? Carry on then.

To be honest, even Ubisoft said that Yasuke being a samurai is debatable. So, I not sure if your argument help or not. I sure they kinda regret pushing this ideia so hard.

Why exactly can’t the player characters kill civilians? Is it because one of the player characters is a foreigner?

This what always be on old AC. Never saw anyone complaining about.

What if the only reason someone bought the game was to mindlessly spill NPC blood and be culturally insensitive?

Maybe tell them this is not GTAV.

 

[Kacho]

The most entertaining AC game by far and it is all free.

Shadows also spawned a meme game which drops on the same day. Can't wait to see clips of that.

 

[ReBurn]

Maybe tell them this is not GTAV.

It kinda was before the patch.

 

[Zacfoldor]

So they caved?

I guess Japan was right all along.

I'm glad you all were so wrong about this and we were always correct. I'm glad Ubisoft cleared that up.

 

[Fake]

It kinda was before the patch.

Thats the point. Even Ubisoft reconsider.

So they caved?

I guess Japan was right all along.

Nah. I do think Ubisoft still think japanese folks are nazi or alt-right accounts stuff, but money speaks volume at the end.

 

[GHG]

Censoring gore instead of making it optional?

I'm out.

 

[Gaiff]

To be honest, even Ubisoft said that Yasuke being a samurai is debatable. So, I not sure if your argument help or not. I sure they kinda regret pushing this ideia so hard.

And I said as such. I said it was uncertain, but that there was strong evidence pointing to the fact that he was.

Then that dingus Lokaum D+ said it wasn't uncertain and spouted a bunch of bullshit. When I presented historical facts, he just did a laughing emoji and didn't refute anything I said, probably because he isn't interested in the historicity of any of this (like most people invested in this debate). He's interested in pushing a narrative, but the one opposite to Ubisoft's.

 

[Rush2112]

OH NO THE SHRINES. Lmao stfu you stupid pagans.

 

[Lokaum D+]

So no arguments whatsoever? Carry on then.

you believe on what you want to believe, there is no reason to argue with you, you ll believe in this fairy tail of Yasuke been a lord/samurai that owned land in Japan, all that in a spam of a year and after the death of his best friend Oda he just vanish from all Japanese history without a trace, such a important person just pufft all that proven by a letter and a book written by some white dude that used wiki to promote his own book as true material and I will believe that he was only a retainer without any importance to Japanese history, Oda liked him cause he was black, once Oda died he just returned to his country leaving absolutely nothing to be talked about it.

 

[HRK69]

Soft as fucking pudding

 

[Fake]

And I said as such. I said it was uncertain, but that there was strong evidence pointing to the fact that he was.

Then that dingus Lokaum D+ said it wasn't uncertain and spouted a bunch of bullshit. When I presented historical facts, he just did a laughing emoji and didn't refute anything I said, probably because he isn't interested in the historicity of any of this (like most people invested in this debate). He's interested in pushing a narrative, but the one opposite to Ubisoft's.

I get that, but strong evidence is still not the actual fact. Those things need to get a consensus between historians, not between gamers like us or a woke company like Ubisoft.

I remember a historian in Japan even write a book about and later admited was most fantasy and load of lies to push his opinion.


Look, this is not a fight worth to. We aren't historians.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I get that, but strong evidence is still not the actual fact.

I'm not sure why you're trying to debate this with him, when he said the same thing twice now.

 

[Fake]

I'm not sure why you're trying to debate this with him, when he said the same thing twice now.

I trying to tell him to stop. He is not a historian. None of us are. Leave this discussion to the experts.

 

[Saber]

you believe on what you want to believe, there is no reason to argue with you, you ll believe in this fairy tail of Yasuke been a lord/samurai that owned land in Japan, all that in a spam of a year and after the death of his best friend Oda he just vanish from all Japanese history without a trace, such a important person just pufft all that proven by a letter and a book written by some white dude that used wiki to promote his own book as true material and I will believe that he was only a retainer without any importance to Japanese history, Oda liked him cause he was black, once Oda died he just returned to his country leaving absolutely nothing to be talked about it.

People regourgitating the Yasuke thing probably because of the bad influence of wikipedia and its mods has on people.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I trying to tell him to stop. He is not a historian. None of us are. Leave this discussion to the experts.

Stop him from what exactly? All you did was agree with what he was saying (twice)

 

[MMaRsu]

Historical documents exist

 

[Shtof]

Absolutely pathetic.
I hoped for the longest Ubi would survive but if they can't even commit to being properly woke they might as well go down the drain.
Bye Ubi.

 

[Gaiff]

you believe on what you want to believe, there is no reason to argue with you, you ll believe in this fairy tail of Yasuke been a lord/samurai that owned land in Japan, all that in a spam of a year and after the death of his best friend Oda he just vanish from all Japanese history without a trace, such a important person just pufft all that proven by a letter and a book written by some white dude that used wiki to promote his own book as true material and I will believe that he was only a retainer without any importance to Japanese history, Oda liked him cause he was black, once Oda died he just returned to his country leaving absolutely nothing to be talked about it.

A bunch of strawman bullshit and once again, nothing historical to back you up.

When the fuck did I say Yasuke "owned" Japan?

The information I presented is historical, either from letters by the Jesuits or chronicled in the the Shinchōkōki (especially the part about the stipend).

That Yasuke was given a house is FACTUAL. That he was given a sword is FACTUAL. That he was given a stipend is FACTUAL. That it was believed he would be made a lord by the locals is FACTUAL. None of this has anything to do with Thomas Lockley, so I don't know why you keep bringing him up. Oh, wait, I know, you're full of shit, didn't do your research, and aren't interested whatsoever in the history. You just wanna push the anti-narrative.

I get that, but strong evidence is still not the actual fact.

And I said as much.

Those things need to get a consensus between historians, not between gamers like us or a woke company like Ubisoft.

There is no consensus because historians say it's debatable.

I remember a historian in Japan even write a book about and later admited was most fantasy and load of lies to push his opinion.

Thomas Lockley's book was full of fantasies, but luckily, I'm not citing him.

Look, this is not a fight worth to. We aren't historians.

We don't need to be historians to analyze history. We don't need to be historians not to be ignorant about it like Lokaum D+ is being. There is strong historical evidence and the dude argues in absolute terrible faith and hasn't refuted a single one of my points. I'm saying it's debatable because it is. Yasuke was given privileges few people got, even officially documented samurai. And for the record, during the time period he was alive, the laws and codes regarding the samurai class where nowhere near as strict as later on. They were rewritten and formalized by Hideyoshi, well over a decade after Obunaga's death and after Yasuke left historical records.

What's insanely annoying with this whole Yasuke thing is all the bad faith actors like Lokaum D+ who will ignore anything that goes against their bias, just like he did with my last two posts.

 

[Fake]

Stop him from what exactly? All you did was agree with what he was saying (twice)

Dude, c'mon... just read the follow up conversation.

He said there is a 'strong evidence' for Yasuke to be a samurai, but no historian pushed this as a fact because still lack consensus.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Historical documents exist

Historical evidence of Yasuke​

Yasuke | African Samurai, History, Oda Nobunaga, & Japan | Britannica

Yasuke was a valet and bodyguard of the Jesuit missionary Alessandro Valignano who rose to become a member of the inner circle of Japan’s first “great unifier,” the warlord Oda Nobunaga. Yasuke is commonly held by Japanese historians to be the first recorded ‘samurai’ of foreign birth, although...

www.britannica.com

Written by: THOMAS LOCKLEY
Fact-checked by: A LOT OF WHITE GUYS

The primary source documents pertaining to Yasuke’s life are Portuguese-language Jesuit reports from the late 16th century (originally published in 1598) and works of the Japanese chroniclers Ōta Gyūichi and Matsudaira Ietada. A few additional documents are thought to pertain to Yasuke, such as a letter from Mozambique discovered in 2021 by Oka Mihoko, a professor at the University of Tokyo, but, as the subjects are not directly named, it is possible that they refer to other people. Furthermore, it is possible that other references to Yasuke have been lost or remain to be discovered in the future.

There is also some pictorial evidence thought to depict Yasuke on a range of lacquerware accessories such as chests, writing boxes, and gunpowder containers, although authenticating these pieces as genuine portraiture has not yet proved possible.

Sumō yūrakuzu byōbu (“Sumo Amusements Screen”)Dating to approximately the early 17th century, this folding screen is thought by some historians to depict Yasuke wrestling with a Japanese man, surrounded by spectators—one of whom appears to be Oda Nobunaga, to the right, judging the wrestling match. The artwork is housed in Sakai City Museum in Ōsaka prefecture.(more)
Sakai City Museum in Ōsaka prefecture holds a folding screen thought to have been created in the early 17th century by an unknown artist. It depicts an African person, thought by historians to be Yasuke, wrestling a Japanese man while surrounded by onlookers, many of whom are awaiting their turn to wrestle. One of the spectators appears to be Nobunaga. Artworks such as these show that Yasuke’s memory lived on in the Japanese popular consciousness for decades after the events for which he is remembered occurred.

this 100% confirms that he was indeed a samurai of importance in Japan, Gaiff was right and i m wrong, i apologize, lets move on.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

He said there is a 'strong evidence' for Yasuke to be a samurai, but no historian pushed this as a fact because still lack consensus.

Of course Yasuke being a samurai hasn't been pushed as fact, because strong evidence doesn't mean something has become fact, it means it becomes debatable because there's still evidence missing, making it uncertain; gaiff has said as much multiple times now.

 

[Kings Field]

Im gonna be dancing like a motherfucker when Ubi goes tits up.

 

[fart town usa]

Imagine white knighting for Ubisoft, while disparaging Japan.

Pathetic!

 

[Topher]

Completely untrue and I wish people did their research before spreading misinformation.

There is ample evidence pointing to him having been a samurai including:

He was given a stipend, which from the Japanese was called a "fuchi", the word used to denote the pay of samurai on a permanent payroll, not temporary servants. He was also given a sword by Nobunaga, and finally a residence. Last, but not least, according to a letter (not Thomas Lockley), the residents also believed that Nobunaga would have made him a tono, or minor lord. Those aren't privileges given to regular servants. All those are documented facts, not fiction made up by Lockley, the "white dude", to sell his book.

So it 100% is debatable and evidence strongly suggests that he was made one. The part that is contentious is him being a foreigner, but since Oda Nobunaga was hated for favoring westerners and angered traditionalists, this would be on brand for him anyway.

Yep. And beyond the historical debate, Yasuke has been the subject of many fictional works (such as this video game) over many years. Suddenly, now......that is a problem?

 

[CGNoire]

Such a Fucking Retarded decision to appease the Worlds easily Offended Crybabies. Identity Politics is cancer no matter which way it cuts.

I feel like no matter which side wins the culture war Artistic Freedom is Fucked.

 

[MMaRsu]

Historical evidence of Yasuke​

Yasuke | African Samurai, History, Oda Nobunaga, & Japan | Britannica

Yasuke was a valet and bodyguard of the Jesuit missionary Alessandro Valignano who rose to become a member of the inner circle of Japan’s first “great unifier,” the warlord Oda Nobunaga. Yasuke is commonly held by Japanese historians to be the first recorded ‘samurai’ of foreign birth, although...

www.britannica.com

Written by: THOMAS LOCKLEY
Fact-checked by: A LOT OF WHITE GUYS

The primary source documents pertaining to Yasuke’s life are Portuguese-language Jesuit reports from the late 16th century (originally published in 1598) and works of the Japanese chroniclers Ōta Gyūichi and Matsudaira Ietada. A few additional documents are thought to pertain to Yasuke, such as a letter from Mozambique discovered in 2021 by Oka Mihoko, a professor at the University of Tokyo, but, as the subjects are not directly named, it is possible that they refer to other people. Furthermore, it is possible that other references to Yasuke have been lost or remain to be discovered in the future.

There is also some pictorial evidence thought to depict Yasuke on a range of lacquerware accessories such as chests, writing boxes, and gunpowder containers, although authenticating these pieces as genuine portraiture has not yet proved possible.

Sumō yūrakuzu byōbu (“Sumo Amusements Screen”)Dating to approximately the early 17th century, this folding screen is thought by some historians to depict Yasuke wrestling with a Japanese man, surrounded by spectators—one of whom appears to be Oda Nobunaga, to the right, judging the wrestling match. The artwork is housed in Sakai City Museum in Ōsaka prefecture.(more)
Sakai City Museum in Ōsaka prefecture holds a folding screen thought to have been created in the early 17th century by an unknown artist. It depicts an African person, thought by historians to be Yasuke, wrestling a Japanese man while surrounded by onlookers, many of whom are awaiting their turn to wrestle. One of the spectators appears to be Nobunaga. Artworks such as these show that Yasuke’s memory lived on in the Japanese popular consciousness for decades after the events for which he is remembered occurred.

this 100% confirms that he was indeed a samurai of importance in Japan, Gaiff was right and i m wrong, i apologize, lets move on.

Not that guys documents, Jesus Christ.

There are Portugese Diaries from those times that survived

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/vfVnRje6Jb

Check this thread for the actual Portugese jesuits writings

 

[Gaiff]

Not that guys documents, Jesus Christ.

There are Portugese Diaries from those times that survived

Can one be more of a bad faith actor than this guy? Nobody mentioned Thomas Lockley beside him. Not even worth arguing with a troll.

And not just Jesuit diaries/letters, there are Japanese chronicles mentioning him as well.

 

[Saber]

Imagine white knighting for Ubisoft, while disparaging Japan.

Pathetic!

I told some people have disdain for the japanese. They probably gonna use that as excuse to call them racist or whatever. It's so natural some people might not even notice.

Yep. And beyond the historical debate, Yasuke has been the subject of many fictional works (such as this video game) over many years. Suddenly, now......that is a problem?

Its a problem now because is supposed to be hystorical accurate as they said, taking advantage of Lockley momentum to reaffirm his position as a samurai as a fact.

 

[MMaRsu]

Can one be more of a bad faith actor than this guy? Nobody mentioned Thomas Lockley beside him. Not even worth arguing with a troll.

And not just Jesuit diaries/letters, there are Japanese chronicles mentioning him as well.

Yeah I dont think he is a good fit for this game but since Ive seen those actual documents i cant argue with history.

 

[Fake]

And lets not forget the wikipedia wars. Many and many years before this game announcement people are 'OK' with Yasuke wikipedia page saying he is not samurai.

 

[DelireMan7]

Yet 2 months after 9/11 metal gear solid 2 came out with Arsenal Gear shoving its ass up lower Manhattan. Not really that big a deal in the media.

*MGS nerd moment*
There was some cut content due to 9/11. The scene where Arsenal Gear actually enter Manhattan and destroy it was removed due to 9/11 (explaining the weird cut in this cutscene).
It was also a big deal for the game and had to be delayed due to the changes (300 changes) to be made.
Kojima said it was even questioning the actual release of the game and was ready to cancel it (Ok, it's Kojima so maybe it's an exaggerate statement).

 

[Lokaum D+]

Not that guys documents, Jesus Christ.

There are Portugese Diaries from those times that survived

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/vfVnRje6Jb

Check this thread for the actual Portugese jesuits writings

as a portuguese speaker are you talking about these ?

should he do something, kill him. We were even more fearful because, after Nobunaga's death, the cafre that the Visitor Father, by his own choice, had left with Nobunaga went to the prince’s house and spent a long time there fighting. A servant of Akechi approached him and asked for his katana, telling him not to be afraid. The cafre handed it over, and another servant went to ask Akechi what should be done with him. Akechi replied: "This cafre is a animal, knows nothing, and is not even Japanese. Do not kill him; just take him to the church of the priests from India." This brought us some relief, especially when we saw the great mercy of the Lord in allowing Nobunaga’s brother-in-law to leave for Sakai a few days earlier, because, without a doubt, to save the brother-in-law, who was also to be killed, it would have been necessary to set fire to our- (church, maybe)

* Cafre means black person