Support NeoGAF

[Saty]

This is my argument:


I see no reason why Sony wouldn't be happy with SF's sales given that if bundle sales were counted in the numbers, that number would probably be a lot higher given it was in two launch bundles. I still don't understand why you're completely dismissing potential userbase when looking at the sales. Why are you doing that?

In your example it would be just as easy to argue that by launching the sequel on a new platform, you obfuscate a series' downward trend by explaining the modest sales are a result of the low install base.

Killzone 3 was a better reviewed; launched at the height of the gen; had tame competition compared to SF but still sold only 10k more than SF. How do you explain its sells then. If it all these going for him and still only sold 10k more than SF on brand new platform then i think all it does say is that the series is at best stuck in its place commercially speaking.

 

[jett]

AC
1 - 30.95%
4 - 69.05%

NSF
1 - 16.71%
4 - 48.42%
360 - 17.77%
3 - 17.11%

NFL
1 - 40.12%
4 - 59.88%

2K14
1 - 34.84%
4 - 65.16%

FIFA 14
1 - 35.43%
4 - 64.57%

NBA 14
1 - 43.40%
4 - 56.60%

the xbone getting boned in third party sales

 

[QaaQer]

I'm thinking more along the lines of number of copies sold.

I get the sale of sports games. Basketball is different from hockey is different from football is different from soccer, etc, etc. I do not understand the sale of first person shooters, as the gameplay is nearly identical in all. There are subtle differences, I guess.

Maybe it would help you to understand if you looked at the top fpses as a type of sports games.

People play sports games (and sports) year after year because they have developed a skillset and understand the rules and probably have some social network because of the game. Does anyone ask an amateur softball palyer why he plays softball year after year?

Further, online COD/BF multiplayer provides challenging unpredictable gameplay, while still being balanced such that almost everyone has some degree of success. AAA single player games do not have challenging and unpredictable gameplay. Gameplay is watered down, streamlined, and predictable. They even put in dynamic difficulty hidden from the player so that those who put it on hard won't get frustrated. But the online multiplayer in FPS games does have unpredictability and challenge.

While personally, I don't care for FPSes much, I do see the appeal of COD and BF multiplayer, just like I see the appeal in MOBAs, rec sport leagues, etc.

 

[Derrick01]

You do understand that the PS4 being out for a week longer is a huge reason that the games sold more on it, right?

No. Hell PS4 games were selling like crazy even before the console came out. Sooner or later you'll just have to accept that it has higher demand.

 

[N.Domixis]

thread worthy?

PS4 officially sells out in South Africa within 24 hours
http://www.el33tonline.com/post/2013/12/13/ps4-officially-sells-out-in-south-africa-within-24-hours/

if the site is banned here, tell me and ill edit.

Some one make a thread on this.

 

[Jonboy]

Hardest number I could come up with is 1,138k based on an earlier post.

Thanks!

 

[Zen]

Media molecule is just as suitable for Sony as Rare is to Ms...

LBP has sold millions and millions and Tear away was only hampered by the health of the platform itself. Rare never even made games that were as high quality as LBP or Tearaway during their entire run with Xbox thus far. Heck LBP Vita is one of the top selling Vita games (though it wasn't made by MM).

What a silly statement.

 

[DR3AM]

RIP Vita

 

[PaulLFC]

In your example it would be just as easy to argue that by launching the sequel on a new platform, you obfuscate a series' downward trend by explaining the modest sales are a result of the low install base.

Killzone 3 was a better reviewed; launched at the height of the gen; had tame competition compared to SF but still sold only 10k more than SF. How do you explain its sells then. If it all these going for him and still only sold 10k more than SF on brand new platform then i think all it does say is that the series is at best stuck in its place commercially speaking.

Sony haven't explained anything though. As I said before I think they will be quite pleased with SF's sales all things considered.

I explain its sales by the fact that the number of NA PS4 sales are estimated at about 1.1 million. I don't know what PS3 NA sales by KZ3's release in 2011 were (let's say 40 million for sake of argument, although if someone could provide the proper number, that would be great). So if we assume 40 million, that means KZ3 had around 40 times more customers it was able to sell to than SF does. Despite that, SF did not sell 40 times less than KZ3 - far from it. Therefore SF's sales would be considered good, I imagine.

 

[bigmf]

Vita and Wii U get in the car and do the Thelma and Louise drive.

 

[Coxy]

Dark Souls is tied with Galaxy 2 as my favorite game last gen, but Souls is an anomaly. I played my PS3 probably three times as much as my Wii, if not more and I would not agree that there was just as much creativity on it. Most of Sony's first party games last gen were celebrations of QTEs and cutscenes.

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

 

[MalaysianMafia]

No. Hell PS4 games were selling like crazy even before the console came out. Sooner or later you'll just have to accept that it has higher demand.

The games being out even earlier than the console would strengthen my argument that the length of time is the reason for the higher sales...

 

[Plinko]

Using your own argument, basketball, hockey, football, and soccer are all nearly identical. Team vs team, passing an object from teammate to teammate, scoring by getting said object into a specific zone. Otherwise it's just down to "subtle differences."

But each specific game has a ridiculously high amount of rules and different skill sets to use, let alone the fact that the method of scoring is different in many. Isn't the main scoring method in most FPS a kill?

Maybe it would help you to understand if you looked at the top fpses as a type of sports games.

People play sports games (and sports) year after year because they have developed a skillset and understand the rules and probably have some social network because of the game. Does anyone ask an amateur softball palyer why he plays softball year after year?

Further, online COD/BF multiplayer provides challenging unpredictable gameplay, while still being balanced such that almost everyone has some degree of success. AAA single player games do not have challenging and unpredictable gameplay. Gameplay is watered down, streamlined, and predictable. They even put in dynamic difficulty hidden from the player so that those who put it on hard won't get frustrated. But the online multiplayer in FPS games does have unpredictability and challenge.

While personally, I don't care for FPSes much, I do see the appeal of COD and BF multiplayer, just like I see the appeal in MOBAs, rec sport leagues, etc.

This makes sense. Thanks for posting.

 

[Salex_]

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

 

[Maxrunner]

You're joking right? LBP has sold millions and millions and Tear away was only hampered by the health of the platform itself. Rare never even made games that were as high quality as LBP or Tearaway during their entire run with Xbox thus far.

What a silly statement.

Keep believing that, all i see is shooters and sports on the charts...

 

[SmokyDave]

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

Perhaps he only played his Wii twice?

 

[jcm]

Geez, almost 5000 posts? This thread needs a recap. Also, fuck NPD.

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

Whoops.

 

[Bruno MB]

This is the most viewed and replied NPD thread in the history of NeoGAF.

NPD Sales Results for November 2013 - 4,730 replies and 475,382 views.

Previous record was: NPD January 2013 Sales Results - 4,596 replies and 364,845 views.

 

[maneil99]

Keep believing that, all i see is shooters and sports on the charts...

LBP sold millions, thats a fact

 

[Razdek]

I disagree with that to be honest. As a vita owner, who plays his vita a lot at that, I see Tearaway as a game that is guaranteed to be on PS+ at some point in the not too distant future. It's also not a game I'm dying to play or anything so I will happily wait out the 6 months or whatever it takes for it to pop up.

I imagine there are plenty of other people with a similar thought process.

I agree, not buying any Vita game that's just going to end up free on PS+.

 

[curb]

Perhaps he only played his Wii twice?

 

[allan-bh]

NSF
1 - 16.71%
4 - 48.42%
360 - 17.77%
3 - 17.11%

I found this strange. Rivals must have sold very poorly on last gen consoles.

 

[BronsonLee]

LBP sold millions, thats a fact

Not only that, but there is tons of DLC for it, including licensed properties. It's basically its own platform now. And it all sells. Moneymoneymoney

 

[BruiserBear]

Why the hell haven't Sony just come out and stated how many PS4's they've sold? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to hide.

 

[ab.aeterno]

I understand and agree with you. I just don't get why that translates to so many sales for FPS games.

Because mindless action has a very large demographic appeal. The Transformers series grossed hundred of millions of dollars. This isn't unprecedented. AAA games are the gaming medium's summer blockbusters.

Movie companies don't expect arthouse movies to be the same kind of financial hit that Avatar was. The gaming industry will need to learn that too, and budget accordingly.

 

[Immaculate]

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

i love when shit like this happens lol

 

[Lord Error]

Have you seen anything for Tearaway at all? It's quite-possibly the most vita-centric designed game to date. It wouldn't work on any other system.

I think that due to presence of touchpad, motion sensing and included microphone, they could make it work on PS4, if not as well as it works on Vita. Backtouch would be a problem though.

 

[lightning2k3]

Such a shame for tearaway. Its a great game. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if PS4 gets outsold by the XBone next month, just because of supply constraints. famousmortimer said that Sony's stock was mostly allocated to Asia while MS is focused on US only. That's gonna be a fun NPD.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Did creamsugar post Tearaway numbers in the end?

TEARAWAY ~ 14k

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=93545323&postcount=3613

 

[Dragon]

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

My psnprofile is definitely missing games. Says I last played a game 11 months ago. BS.

 

[curb]

Why the hell haven't Sony just come out and stated how many PS4's they've sold? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to hide.

Maybe they're saving up for their next big milestone so that they can stretch out the positive PR buzz.

 

[lightning2k3]

Why the hell haven't Sony just come out and stated how many PS4's they've sold? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to hide.

Sony never announces numbers. Plus I would imagine they would not want to announce their terribad vita numbers.

 

[satam55]

Why the hell haven't Sony just come out and stated how many PS4's they've sold? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to hide.

It really doesn't matter. It took Sony less 24 hours to sell 1 million+ PS4s in North America. It took Microsoft from launch day on Nov. 22nd to the end of November on Nov. 30th to reach 909,132 in North America.

 

[Flo_Evans]

NSF
1 - 16.71%
4 - 48.42%
360 - 17.77%
3 - 17.11%

I found this strange. Rivals must have sold very poorly on last gen consoles.

More like its the only racing game for PS4.

 

[IHaveIce]

http://psnprofiles.com/MoogleWizard
6 Games Played

Oh man detective gaf is so sad.
What if he has another psn account huh? I created a psn id with my gaf name just this year, but own my ps3 since 2008.

 

[Curufinwe]

Poor marketing? Dude its a Vita game. The best marketing team in the world couldn't sell Tearaway. Not in November at least. If its an IP worth anything Sony will port it to a viable platform.

It makes P4 Golden's 300,000+ sales look even better.

http://gematsu.com/2013/10/persona-4-golden-sales-surpass-300000

 

[besada]

I think the software numbers are going to get more and more useless as we go along. I and a number of other gamers I know, have gone entirely digital. Even for folks that are only occasionally digital, the numbers of us are growing, which is going to keep skewing the number more and more.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

My psnprofile is definitely missing games. Says I last played a game 11 months ago. BS.

Just go to the source then.

 

[RM8]

I haven't played either, but 3D World and Tearaway look better than the GAF-consensus-GOTY games and it's sad to see them bomb

 

[NHale]

NSF
1 - 16.71%
4 - 48.42%
360 - 17.77%
3 - 17.11%

I found this strange. Rivals must have sold very poorly on last gen consoles.

The game suffered from releasing on PS4 first and PS3/X360 later. The last-gen versions never received any attention from the media and it's like they didn't exist unless you are really into the news of the industry. No reviews, no marketing, nothing.

 

[allan-bh]

More like its the only racing game for PS4.

I understand sell well on PS4, but almost 50% of overall sales?

This indicates that not sold well on 360/PS3. Even on Xbox One sold almost equal to each last gen sku.

 

[popeutlal]

Own it, played it. Galaxy games are better.

 

[a.wd]

Wow this is like NPD circa 2005-7 feels good man, feels good....

 

[lightning2k3]

It makes P4 Golden's 300,000+ sales look even better.

http://gematsu.com/2013/10/persona-4-golden-sales-surpass-300000

Golden had legs. That game has been a top seller for the vita ever since it came out. While i don't expect tearaway to get to that level, hopefully tearaway also will continue to sell once people recover from their PS4/XBox One expenditures.

 

[Cromat]

The most innovative games last gen were not on the Wii, and its library was lacking compared to the competition in pretty much every genre except platforming.

Wii had amazing games. Wii Sport, The Mario Galaxies, Zeldas, Excitetruck (yes it is up there with them). But lets be honest here: a Wii-only player can hardly be said to have even experienced the last 7 years in gaming. The same could not be said of Xbox 360 and PS3, which had every genre represented.

Even the shooters that people like to look down on so much, such as Gears of Wars and Call of Duty 4, were incredibly innovative and are incredibly influential. The scale of Assassin's Creed, GTA and Skyrim. The setting and atmosphere of Mass Effect and Red Dead Redemption. The resurgence of fighting games. Indie games making it big like Minecraft. You can't dismiss all of this as "games lacking creativity". And none of this required motion controls or a tablet controller to happen.

 

[coldfoot]

Are >50% of COD sales bad? If you answer no, Killzone sold great.

 

[ab.aeterno]

The problem is that the FPS genre has been greatly narrowed to a certain kind of fast paced FPS.

Kind of like how platformers have similarly narrowed to Mario, Rayman, and a few other titles here and there? Do I t to be reductionist about platformers after pointing that out?

The two biggest FPS this holiday are Battlefield and CoD. And if you think they're basically the same thing with minor differences, then you've not played them.

On the other hand, Nintendo is more risky. Galaxy to 3D-World, Zelda games change some core aspects in each iteration...

The basic mechanics of every Zelda game are killing enemies and bosses in dungeons. See how you can be reductionist about anything when you want to lazily dismiss something? The difference is you don't care for FPS games, so you can dismiss them, whereas you like Zelda and Mario and can't see the similarity that allows for me to be reductionist too. When you like a series or genre, you see the nuance.

 

[allan-bh]

The game suffered from releasing on PS4 first and PS3/X360 later. The last-gen versions never received any attention from the media and it's like they didn't exist unless you are really into the news of the industry. No reviews, no marketing, nothing.

yeah, that's true.

I looked for reviews on 360 and not found. All the material that I found about the game referred to next gen.

 

[Zen]

Keep believing that, all i see is shooters and sports on the charts...

I don't need to expend a special amount of effort to do so because it's the truth.

Why the statement makes no sense
'Only seeing shooters and sports games on the charts' has nothing to do with your original statement, that MM is no better a fit for Sony than Rare is for MS. In fact I'm willing to bet -I'
m certain actually- that you're making these statements ignorant of actual sales information, or much information at all.

If we're going strictly by what you see on the combined formats chart then Nintendo, Microsoft AND Sony should all be divesting themselves of the majority of their studios. Which of course they aren't because it would be insane.

Sales/'On the charts'

As of Gamescon 2010, the original LBP had sold 4.5 million units Worldwide. http://www.viddler.com/explore/PlayStatiONline/videos/1/453.366/

LBP 2

In the UK, LittleBigPlanet 2 debuted at number one on the UK All Formats chart, then fell to number two in its second week of sales.[87] According to ChartTrack, the original LittleBigPlanet sold 95 more copies than LittleBigPlanet 2 managed at it debut week.[88] LittleBigPlanet 2 remained the UK's biggest-selling PS3 game for two weeks in a row.[89] In Japan the game debuted at number five, selling 24,648 copies[90] and in North America it topped the North American software sales in its debut week.[91] LittleBigPlanet 2 was ranked number four on NPD's sales charts for January 2011,[92] selling over 353,000 units in its first couple of weeks.[93][94] On Black Friday in November 2011, LittleBigPlanet 2 sold over 400,000 copies.[95] According to SCE, LittleBigPlanet 2 was one of the most popular games on PlayStation 3 in 2011.[69]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LittleBigPlanet_2

LBP PSP
And LBP PSP was the top selling piece of PSP software when it came out, against titles like Asassins Creed Bloodlines, it actually sold very well over time on a dead platform almost making it into the top 10 list despite not being Monster Hunter and launching well after other titles on said list.

Does that sound like a mismatch to you? I will go and pull up not only the reviews average of Rares games since joining Microsoft, but also the sales average, if you really want. I probably wouldn't include their Kinect Sports output though as I think we all can agree that said output really isn't 'Rare'.

MM is also Sony's top studio by review averages per title by the way.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/12/02/every-sony-owned-studio-from-worst-to-best?page=3

 

[harSon]

It really doesn't matter. It took Sony less 24 hours to sell 1 million+ PS4s in North America. It took Microsoft from launch day on Nov. 22nd to the end of November on Nov. 30th to reach 909,132 in the United States.

Fixed