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[Guilty_AI]

I swear, youtube grifters like asmongold have fried some people's brain.

Dude, first thing asmongold said when Yasuke came out in the announcement, was that this was the least of things to be bothered in a SP game that has a 130$ edition and season passes - which they subsequently removed due to backlash. So yeah, thank the "grifters" for getting a better buck for your money today.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I really don't know why some people are so insistent on hating this because it's woke. It's not really woke, is it? Seems silly to hate on the game for that reason.

Hate it because you hate Ubisoft and want bad things to happen to them. Be a genuine, informed hater.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Can someone explain the lore of the series to me? Is there a long form video? I only played up to 3 with a bit of the others here and there.

 

[Roufianos]

"Comfortably ahead" of MH Wilds? Damn that's insane.

I mean Wilds sold 8m in 3 days which Shadows obviously hasn't. MH was much bigger on PC, as per the Steam player counts, which partly explains it. Will need to see the digital sales in a few days to see how it compares to Valhalla.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

I really don't know why some people are so insistent on hating this because it's woke. It's not really woke, is it? Seems silly to hate on the game for that reason.

Hate it because you hate Ubisoft and want bad things to happen to them. Be a genuine, informed hater.

Do you honestly believe that the decision to have an African protagonist in a feudal Japanese samurai game was not agenda driven?

 

[Skifi28]

Dude, first thing asmongold said when Yasuke came out in the announcement, was that this was the least of things to be bothered in a SP game that has a 130$ edition and season passes - which they subsequently removed due to backlash. So yeah, thank the "grifters" for getting a better buck for your money today.

I got the same standard version I would have gotten anyway, he didn't save me money. Ubisoft have always had overpriced versions and micro-transactions that border on being a scam in most of their games which is about the same here. That's not what I was debating about though.

 

[adamsapple]

Can someone explain the lore of the series to me? Is there a long form video? I only played up to 3 with a bit of the others here and there.

You are better off playing this one fresh. There are little to no connective ties with the last bunch of WRPG-like AC games. It's practically standalone.

 

[Topher]

• The Show and 2K are games which will sell around 2-3m copies. Plus 2K is in its second week.
• Split Fiction is in its third week.
• MH Wilds is in its fourth week.

That they will end up making the overall best sellers list is irrelevant when the chart Shadows is topping is a comparison of current performance, not overall performance.

You might not be able to say which of the above being surpassed by Shadows is indicative of Shadow's 'success', but hopefully the person offering it as evidence of such can.

My point in stating these games will be on the year end best sellers is that they are not just a flash in the pan, not that they are at the peak. But if we are going to dismiss best sellers then we might as well dismiss all data that isn't revenue and profit. In that case, we have nothing that is indicate of success, but also nothing indicative of failure. Otherwise, we are just cherry picking the information we like or dislike to coincide with an agenda.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Can someone explain the lore of the series to me? Is there a long form video? I only played up to 3 with a bit of the others here and there.

After 3 pretty much the storyline about the first civilization and the apples of eden etc took a backseat... now it's a generalised assassins vs templars thing and each side is using the animus looking for pieces of eden for some future conflict.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I got the same standard version I would have gotten anyway, he didn't save me money. Ubisoft have always had overpriced versions and micro-transactions that border on being a scam in most of their games which is about the same here. That's not what I was debating about though.

They got rid of season pass and gave the content to everyone, meaning you got more content out of your standard edition. And the point here is that you clearly weren't even following the conversation that closely. I bet everything you heard about "tha griftahs" came from some third party complaining about said grifters.

Go actually see what people are saying. It's all perfectly valid complaints, from Ubisoft anti-consumer practices, to problems with the game itself. The whole shitshow with yasuke and their portrayal of history is like just a little bonus that's used to demonstrate just how little care goes into their games.

 

[Raven117]

A game that doesn't beat AC Origins will not be in line with sales expectations.

All this game has showed is that there is some value still left in the AC franchise and it will increase the purchase price. This is not a "saving Ubi" moment.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Do you honestly believe that the decision to have an African protagonist in a feudal Japanese samurai game was not agenda driven?

Oh, I definitely do; but I don't think I'd categorize the game as overly woke because of that - it's not in the same realm as something like Veilguard or Concord or anywhere near it.

 

[Skifi28]

They got rid of season pass and gave the content to everyone, meaning you got more content out of your standard edition. And the point here is that you clearly weren't even following the conversation that closely. I bet everything you heard about "tha griftahs" came from some third party complaining about said grifters.

Go actually see what people are saying. It's all perfectly valid complaints, from Ubisoft anti-consumer practices, to problems with the game itself. The whole shitshow with yasuke and their portrayal of history is like just a little bonus that's used to demonstrate just how little care goes into their games.

I have unforunately watched several videos over the years before making my mind up and most of it is just ragebait bullshit meant for a specific crowd. They really are grifters that thrive on any sort of negativity to turn into clicks. It was difficult to finish most of them, you won't be changing my mind. Yes, when you complain about literally everything you might get something right once or twice, assuming you can even attribute small wins to these channels in the first place and not just people complaining in general.

 

[calico]

My point in stating these games will be on the year end best sellers is that they are not just a flash in the pan, not that they are at the peak. But if we are going to dismiss best sellers then we might as well dismiss all data that isn't revenue and profit. In that case, we have nothing that is indicate of success, but also nothing indicative of failure. Otherwise, we are just cherry picking the information we like or dislike to coincide with an agenda.

We should dismiss weekly charts *unless* we have useful information about some other entry in the chart. That is my point. Being top of a weekly chart tells us nothing if we don't know whether second place sold 5 copies or 5 million copies that week.

Steam peak is very clearly indicative of how well a game has sold at launch on the platform (at least for well known games). I believe that by comparing to other similar games for which we do have overall sales data it can be indicative of overall performance.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

Oh, I definitely do; but I don't think I'd categorize the game as overly woke because of that - it's not in the same realm as something like Veilguard or Concord or anywhere near it.

Agree that there are more egregious examples of "woke" games, but that doesn't absolve Ubi of criticism for the decision to create a samurai game that puts DEI front and center. Of all the places they could have chosen to go if they wanted "black representation" in their game, feudal Japan may have been the worst choice possible. Ultimately, they took a side in the culture war and they're going to have to live with however the players choose to respond to that decision.

 

[GHG]

Keep in mind the potential audience on Ubi+ is also probably double, or some multiple factor, what is was at the time Valhalla and stuff launched. So there's a bigger divide there too.

As some have said earlier, if they have multiple Ubi games tied to the Ubi+ service, they're more likely to continue

Have Ubisoft announced numbers on the number of PC Ubisoft+ subscribers they have?

If that subscription service and their PC store were doing so well then I doubt they would have come back to steam in the way that they did.

But we know why an increased number of people might have considered playing it via subscription instead of buying, don't we? Consistent attempts to de-market the title from racists and grifters can't have helped.

Oh my apologies sir. There was me thinking we were having a serious discussion.

 

[adamsapple]

Have Ubisoft announced numbers on the number of PC Ubisoft+ subscribers they have?

If that subscription service and their PC store were doing so well then I doubt they would have come back to steam in the way that they did.

Fair enough and I don't think they've announced official counts, or I can't find one at least.

 

[Trogdor1123]

After 3 pretty much the storyline about the first civilization and the apples of eden etc took a backseat... now it's a generalised assassins vs templars thing and each side is using the animus looking for pieces of eden for some future conflict.

That's less fun… i liked the big unknowns

 

[Topher]

We should dismiss weekly charts *unless* we have useful information about some other entry in the chart. That is my point. Being top of a weekly chart tells us nothing if we don't know whether second place sold 5 copies or 5 million copies that week.

We don't have those numbers for those lists though. So we can't say how many were sold whether the game is number one or number five. That's the case for all charts that I'm aware of.

Steam peak is very clearly indicative of how well a game has sold at launch on the platform (at least for well known games). I believe that by comparing to other similar games for which we do have overall sales data it can be indicative of overall performance.

Not necessarily. Subscription services are not included in the CCU counts so that potentially muddies the water. Even then, how a game does on Steam does not necessarily translate over to consoles. So we don't have enough data to say if the game is a success or failure overall. Goes back to what I said initially. We are dancing around data, but none of it tells the whole story.

 

[GHG]

Fair enough and I don't think they've announced official counts, or I can't find one at least.

I really wish all these companies would be a lot more transparent with their subscription numbers along with the amount of revenue their subscriptions are generating. Would give us a much more realistic picture of the industry's overall financial health.

Regardless, we will find out the final outcome soon enough. Ubisoft don't have much of a cushion at the moment given the current situation with their stock and financial health.

 

[Ozriel]

whats is your point ? steam user review cant be manipulated ? there is lots of positive reviews with 3 to 4 hours of gameplay, i even found a positive refunded review

.

my point is dont believe on anyone, believe on your own taste, the only assassins that i didnt played was Valhala, and i can tell that after Origins all of them are bad games to me.

There will be some exceptions, but reviews that mandate purchase are an order of magnitude more credible than the Metacritic system where anyone can drop a 0/10 or 10/10 review even without buying it.

The 'product refunded' review clearly says the user thought it was good, just not at the price point he wanted.

We already know its not big success, otherwise ubi would announce 5-10m copies sold by now. Current question is- will it flop superhard, will it break even or will it be mild success?

Has any other AC game sold 5-10 million copies in under a week?

 

[pudel]

Oh, I definitely do; but I don't think I'd categorize the game as overly woke because of that - it's not in the same realm as something like Veilguard or Concord or anywhere near it.

Shadows introduced also the first "nonbuynary" character in the whole AssCreed franchise. He seems to be not that prominent as the dude in Veilguard, but he can be Yasukes lover.

 

[LectureMaster]

Have Ubisoft announced numbers on the number of PC Ubisoft+ subscribers they have?

If that subscription service and their PC store were doing so well then I doubt they would have come back to steam in the way that they did.



Oh my apologies sir. There was me thinking we were having a serious discussion.

Fair enough and I don't think they've announced official counts, or I can't find one at least.

Steam will always be the predominant share on PC platform. Ubi even made some pro-consumer practice for the Steam version - Shadows does not require Ubi's third party launcher on Steam that they mandate for all previous titles.

I can imagine there might be a surge in their Ubi plus service as people trying out the game, but I doubt there would be any significant portion of copies sold on Ubi own store.

 

[Topher]

I really wish all these companies would be a lot more transparent with their subscription numbers along with the amount of revenue their subscriptions are generating. Would give us a much more realistic picture of the industry's overall financial health.

Regardless, we will find out the final outcome soon enough. Ubisoft don't have much of a cushion at the moment given the current situation with their stock and financial health.

If I were a stockholder then I would definitely want to know how these services were impacting unit sales and revenue. As a gamer, I could potentially complete both Outlaws and Shadows in the span of one $17 month. I'm going to keep taking advantage of that if I can, but if it was a matter of ROI on my investment as a stockholder, especially for a company in dire straits like Ubisoft, then I would be looking sideways at the last revenue.

 

[pudel]

I really wish all these companies would be a lot more transparent with their subscription numbers along with the amount of revenue their subscriptions are generating. Would give us a much more realistic picture of the industry's overall financial health.

Wasnt Ubi recently requesting from Gabe that they doesnt want these steamdb numbers to be public for their games anymore? (and Gabe just gave them the middlefinger ) So yeah, forget it....these companies/corpos doesnt want us peasants to be informed about anything.

 

[Astray]

Have Ubisoft announced numbers on the number of PC Ubisoft+ subscribers they have?

If that subscription service and their PC store were doing so well then I doubt they would have come back to steam in the way that they did.



Oh my apologies sir. There was me thinking we were having a serious discussion.

The big problem for Ubisoft is not their store or sub service.

It's the fact that they had a ton of bombed projects in a short time span (whether each project was justified to bomb or not is besides the point, some of this list is stuff I played and really loved, or at least have an interest in playing at some point):

- Watchdogs: Legion
- Star Wars: Outlaws
- Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora
- Hyperscape
- Skull and Bones
- XDefiant
- Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown
- Rainbow Six: Extraction

All the above are financial failures of various proportions, they all happened in the last 2~4 years, and they put the company in dire straits. So it's very logical that Ubisoft would look to find any way to regain its footing, including making concessions they normally wouldn't (like toning down the monetization of this game and refunding preorders, or putting all the games on Steam again etc).

 

[LectureMaster]

I could potentially complete both Outlaws and Shadows in the span of one $17 month

 

[GHG]

Shadows introduced also the first "nonbuynary" character in the whole AssCreed franchise. He seems to be not that prominent as the dude in Veilguard, but he can be Yasukes lover.

The issue with Yasuke is that it's so on the nose, especially given the way that they went about revealing him. This idea that people are taking issue with him because of "racism" is so unbelievably myopic. Yes, some individuals who have spoken out against this will be flat out racists, but there are plenty of people who have legitimate reasons as to why they believe this chacater is not a good fit.

We've also since found out that his character doesn't even fit the structure of the game well (stealth, which is a signature mechanic across the entire series). So it begs the question as to why they even bothered to do this at all when there are dozens of other samurai they could have gone with from the era which would have been a better fit for this specific style of game.

But this is the bed Ubisoft have made for themselves so now they must live with it.

Honestly, in my opinion they would have been better off going with a character creator and it would have avoided all of this while also giving players a choice of their own in terms of how they both how they want their character to look and how the character plays. They could have even done something interesting where if you opt to build a smaller and lighter character then they will be better at stealth but weaker in combat, and the opposite for a taller heavier character.

Basically something like Dragon's Dogma 2's weight class system (which was one of the few things I thought the game did very well) and how that feeds in to encumbrance, movement and combat across the various classes:

There are so many sensible solutions for all of this, but for some reason they chose to go down the most contentious path.

 

[Trilobit]

I really don't know why some people are so insistent on hating this because it's woke. It's not really woke, is it? Seems silly to hate on the game for that reason.

You remind me of how wokeness has been flooded to a such an insane degree into modern entertainment that people are basically swimming around in it and not even reacting to it anymore. I fear it has done irreparable damage especially to youngsters born around 2010.

 

[calico]

We don't have those numbers for those lists though. So we can't say how many were sold whether the game is number one or number five. That's the case for all charts that I'm aware of.

Yes, exactly, the chart position itself is not useful unless we have some other information to apply. For example, an actual sales announcement from another game in the chart released at the same time might allow us to infer that the game we are interested in did better/worse than that. I am not the person offering Shadows' chart position alone as evidence of success.

Not necessarily. Subscription services are not included in the CCU counts so that potentially muddies the water. Even then, how a game does on Steam does not necessarily translate over to consoles. Goes back to what I said initially. We are dancing around data, but none of it tells the whole story.

I agree it doesn't tell the whole story, but other games are available on subscription services and skew towards console. Veilguard for one.

The steam numbers are actual data while the chart position is not, at least without some other information which may turn it into data.

 

[Topher]

The steam numbers are actual data while the chart position is not, at least without some other information which may turn it into data.

I agree with you there. Steam CCU data is better data even if it is still just engagement numbers.

 

[calico]

You remind me of how wokeness has been flooded to a such an insane degree into modern entertainment that people are basically swimming around in it and not even reacting to it anymore. I fear it has done irreparable damage especially to youngsters born around 2010.

Lol yeah. People 'can't detect any wokeness' when an ostensibly historical game about ninjas and samurai (both roles filled 99.999% by Japanese men) has a woman and an African man as the protagonists filling those roles. Amazing.

 

[pudel]

We've also since found out that his character doesn't even fit the structure of the game well (stealth, which is a signature mechanic across the entire series) so it begs the question as to why they even bothered to do this at all when there are dozens of other samurai they could have gone with from the era which would have been a better fit for this specific style of game.

Yep, that whole "RPG" system doesnt sit right with me (since Origins which I ragequited). It just feels like an unnatural overlay. But I guess they tried to cater to all these soulslike fans.

Honestly, in my opinion they would have been better off going with a character creator and it would have avoided all of this while also giving players a choice of their own in terms of how they both how they want their character to look and how the character plays. They could have even done something interesting where if you opt to build a smaller and lighter character then they will be better at stealth but weaker in combat, and the opposite for a taller heavier character.

That might be even a very good idea....yep. Especially as you play random nobodies in random timelines anyway (excl. Shadows). And for AC Hexe (if we ever see that)I wouldnt trust Ubi to come up with a nice and likeable witch...so let me create her myself....yep!

 

[Trilobit]

Lol yeah. People 'can't detect any wokeness' when an ostensibly historical game about ninjas and samurai (both roles filled 99.999% by Japanese men) has a woman and an African man as the protagonists filling those roles. Amazing.

That is you.

 

[GHG]

Yep, that whole "RPG" system doesnt sit right with me (since Origins which I ragequited). It just feels like an unnatural overlay. But I guess they tried to cater to all these soulslike fans.



That might be even a very good idea....yep. Especially as you play random nobodies in random timelines anyway (excl. Shadows). And for AC Hexe (if we ever see that)I wouldnt trust Ubi to come up with a nice and likeable witch...so let me create her myself....yep!

Well that's the rub with all of the more recent AC games - they want to give players an open ended RPG-like experience but also attempt to funnel players down a specific narrative path for a specific pre-defined protagonist at the same time.

It's like the various mechanics of these games are constantly at odds with each other, which is why the games always tend to feel like a chore after a dozen or so hours in.

 

[calico]

I think that splitting the traditional 'amazing at stealth and mobility and combat' AC protag into multiple gimped characters was never a good idea. The success of the whole franchise is built on that: AC made 'stealth' palatable to a mainstream audience by (almost always) allowing the player to just go rambo af if they fail at / cba with stealth.

If they did want to split the toolset over multiple characters like that, they should have made it so it was an instant button press tag out system. Having to go into the menu screen to switch characters because one of them can't climb a tower is dumb.

 

[nemiroff]

Do you honestly believe that the decision to have an African protagonist in a feudal Japanese samurai game was not agenda driven?

It doesn't matter. The small intro sequence at the start with Yasuke rather alleviated my concerns, it all feels like a nothing burger now. The world building is pretty good, and Naoe is the real main character of the game. And she's also fucking gorgeous.

I don't feel like the game is constantly hammering me over the head with agendas, so

From the few hours I've played it tonight, I'd say who gives a shit about what the grifters say.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

It doesn't matter. The small intro sequence at the start with Yasuke rather alleviated my concerns, it all feels like a nothing burger now. The world building is pretty good, and Naoe is the real main character of the game. And she's also fucking gorgeous.

I don't feel like the game is constantly hammering me over the head with agendas, so

From the few hours I've played it tonight, I'd say who gives a shit about what the grifters say.

Yes, you are entitled to your own perspective/feelings on the matter... but you don't speak for the entire player base.

 

[nemiroff]

you don't speak for the entire player base.

?

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

?

I'm not sure what's confusing here? Your post seemed to be arguing that the game isn't agenda driven, and I responded saying it's fine that you feel that way but there's other opinions on the matter.

 

[pudel]

It doesn't matter. The small intro sequence at the start with Yasuke rather alleviated my concerns, it all feels like a nothing burger now. The world building is pretty good, and Naoe is the real main character of the game. And she's also fucking gorgeous.

I don't feel like the game is constantly hammering me over the head with agendas, so

From the few hours I've played it tonight, I'd say who gives a shit about what the grifters say.

I dont know...i saw also only the intro in the beginning, and I was just eye rolling when these two portuguese guys were immediately singled out as the bad guys and ofc the weird looking big black man was instantly the good guy who needs to be promoted asap.

 

[nemiroff]

I'm not sure what's confusing here? Your post seemed to be arguing that the game isn't agenda driven, and I responded saying it's fine that you feel that way but there's other opinions on the matter.

Oh my god, there's other opinions on the matter!? It's a good thing you told me instead of letting me stumble about thinking otherwise!

 

[Topher]

It doesn't matter. The small intro sequence at the start with Yasuke rather alleviated my concerns, it all feels like a nothing burger now. The world building is pretty good, and Naoe is the real main character of the game. And she's also fucking gorgeous.

I don't feel like the game is constantly hammering me over the head with agendas, so

From the few hours I've played it tonight, I'd say who gives a shit about what the grifters say.

Stop pretending you speak for me! Also, I agree with you.

 

[Lethal01]

Agree that there are more egregious examples of "woke" games, but that doesn't absolve Ubi of criticism for the decision to create a samurai game that puts DEI front and center. Of all the places they could have chosen to go if they wanted "black representation" in their game, feudal Japan may have been the worst choice possible. Ultimately, they took a side in the culture war and they're going to have to live with however the players choose to respond to that decision.

It's also driven by that historical fact being super neat and many people saying it would make a cool story when they hear it. Severy devs including Japanese ones had already included Yasuke in theeir games to positive reception.

Is it really worth it to defend this game? I mean they put now "nonbinary" nonsense into feudal Japan.

Ah yes, Ubisoft "put in" a huge part of feudal Japanese culture into a game about fuedal Japan and this is such an issue.

 

[bigdad2007]

Can someone explain the lore of the series to me? Is there a long form video? I only played up to 3 with a bit of the others here and there.

The series used to have a story in the first 2 games and spinoffs. Then they fired the head writer because he wanted to have an actual conclusion to the story.

Anything after 3 is essentially a soulless annual installment game like CoD that wears the lore of the original games as a skin suit.

 

[Lethal01]

I dont know...i saw also only the intro in the beginning, and I was just eye rolling when these two portuguese guys were immediately singled out as the bad guys and ofc the weird looking big black man was instantly the good guy who needs to be promoted asap.

But, that's a plot point that is ripped straight from the historical records of Yasuke, of which there are few.

 

[pudel]

Ah yes, Ubisoft "put in" a huge part of feudal Japanese culture into a game about fuedal Japan and this is such an issue.

Okay, thats some weird pedo shit I didnt know about. Still hasnt to do anything with "they/them"...but its close, yep.

 

[Lethal01]

Okay, thats some weird pedo shit I didnt know about.

I mean yeah, it was 1600s, having lovers/wives/prostitute in their teens was pretty normal regardless of gender

Still hasnt to do anything with "they/them"...but its close, yep.

It was a group of people thought to be somewhere between a man and a woman and that stage could continue until you reach 80 if the person chose it to.. obvioustly Japan doesnt speak English and dont use pronouns much so it's not like they could use "they/them" but to say they have nothing to do each other? nah.

 

[Hestar69]

I can. I've yet to see any DEI elements actually playing the game. If anything, the Japanese dub and writting is very well done and respectful to the culture and era, at least so far. For all the crap I've been reading here for months, I've yet to see any yellow or red flags after 8 hours. I'm afraid that the extend of those DEI elements is "there's a black person in my samurai game herp derp" which was stupid from the very beggining as it's an old concept and even considered cool in Japan seeing certain works like Afro Samurai. I swear, youtube grifters like asmongold have fried some people's brain.

Afro Samurai was an actually good game with a fire soundtrack...Don't compare it to this slop of a game and I won't even spoil the ending and the ending "song" they chose.

 

[pudel]

It was a group of people thought to be somewhere between a man and a woman and that stage could continue until you reach 80 if the person chose it to.. obvioustly Japan doesnt speak English and dont use pronouns much so it's not like they could use "they/them" but to say they have nothing to do each other? nah.

But they were clearly males. Just because they were wearing women clothes doesnt make them women or something entirely else. Ofc you can give them funny names...but fact is these "wakashus" were males.