Why next gen won't be next gen really
- Thread starter subversus
- Start date
AdventureRacing
Member
That's what i was thinking lol.
CamHostage
Member
We said the exact same thing with every previous generation: besides prettier graphics, what are these new machines going to do with all that power and how's that going to justify the price? Early titles (despite many showing off nice surface effects, and despite a few classics on launch day) have regularly held up that reputation that all we'll get is a fresh coat of paint. (Yep, even the SNES/Genesis transition to PSX/N64 was knocked for just being the same old thing but now in 3D.) But every time, we've found a way.
I think this future generation will focus on polish of presentation. Kill the aliasing, smooth over the digital artifacts, generally sell the image more convincingly that what you're seeing is happening and isn't just a videogame. Curves will be curves, and textures will be accurate and multilayered with the look of lived-in use. Animation could use that power in a big, big way, as technology like DMM and Euphoria really didn't get their full due of exploration. Weight will (where reasonable) act realistically. Our characters will have more awareness of their environments and be able to react realistically (as great as Uncharted 3's awareness system is, it's very "videogamey" and relies on an animation system with limited variation.) Our online games will be able to manage more dynamic and expansive worlds without bogging down or limiting the interactivity. And although we all love a good joystick, this generation has shown how much fun and ease of control motion and voice controls can be, and those technologies are in need of more horsepower in order to meet the wildly advanced development technologies in the works.
It's hard to say what'll happen, as there for certain was a certain level of achievement set with this generation that will be hard to advance over. (And if you look at what's going on in tech industries, more effort is being poured into portable technology than home technology, getting as much power and life as possible into a device you fit into your pocket.) This could well be the end of the graphics technology curve we're seeing here. But we won't know until we see it, and many of have seen demos that has proven already that developers don't at all believe there's a wall up ahead.
I think this future generation will focus on polish of presentation. Kill the aliasing, smooth over the digital artifacts, generally sell the image more convincingly that what you're seeing is happening and isn't just a videogame. Curves will be curves, and textures will be accurate and multilayered with the look of lived-in use. Animation could use that power in a big, big way, as technology like DMM and Euphoria really didn't get their full due of exploration. Weight will (where reasonable) act realistically. Our characters will have more awareness of their environments and be able to react realistically (as great as Uncharted 3's awareness system is, it's very "videogamey" and relies on an animation system with limited variation.) Our online games will be able to manage more dynamic and expansive worlds without bogging down or limiting the interactivity. And although we all love a good joystick, this generation has shown how much fun and ease of control motion and voice controls can be, and those technologies are in need of more horsepower in order to meet the wildly advanced development technologies in the works.
It's hard to say what'll happen, as there for certain was a certain level of achievement set with this generation that will be hard to advance over. (And if you look at what's going on in tech industries, more effort is being poured into portable technology than home technology, getting as much power and life as possible into a device you fit into your pocket.) This could well be the end of the graphics technology curve we're seeing here. But we won't know until we see it, and many of have seen demos that has proven already that developers don't at all believe there's a wall up ahead.
Show me on the doll where the PC gamer touched you.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
This argument is so ridiculous. Next gen will bring about games that simply were not possible on today's consoles.
Just like this generation brought about games that were not possible on previous consoles.
Oblivion and Skyrim.
Crysis and Crysis 2(more so crysis)
GTA IV and GTA V
BFBC2 and Battlefield 3
Gears 3
Halo Reach
Uncharted Series
Killzone 2-3 (as evidenced by KZ1)
Little Big Planet 1-2(still limited by PS3 hardware)
Red Dead Redemption
Forza 4
Mass Effect 1-2-3
Assassins Creed Series
Fallout 3-NV
God of War III
Halo ODST/ 3
MGS4
Batman AC
Far Cry 2
Just Cause 2
Left 4 Dead 2
Borderlands
Portal 1-2
Halo CEA
etc etc etc.
These are all games that would not be possible in current form on previous generations, whether it be due to scale, number of NPC's, AI, Physics, Number of Players, XBL/PSN integration, or other reasons.
Sure you could argue a game like Modern Warfare or Bioshock could have been done on previous consoles with severely hampered graphics. (See Wii version of MW3) and at that point, the experience is pretty severely effected as far as immersion. Which is a huge part of what makes those kinds of games good in the first place.
Next gen will bring about possibilities we have not thought of yet, as it does every time.
It will also bring about graphics that will make us wonder how we ever tolerated this gens graphics.
Sure games like Uncharted 3, Gears 3, Forza 4, Crysis etc impress. But look closely at anything in the game world and it shows that we just accept the graphics because it is a game and we are used to it, however much of the most impressive games this gen still look like absolute horse shit when not viewed a certain way. Graphics have a LONG way to go.
Next gen can't get here soon enough.
Just like this generation brought about games that were not possible on previous consoles.
Oblivion and Skyrim.
Crysis and Crysis 2(more so crysis)
GTA IV and GTA V
BFBC2 and Battlefield 3
Gears 3
Halo Reach
Uncharted Series
Killzone 2-3 (as evidenced by KZ1)
Little Big Planet 1-2(still limited by PS3 hardware)
Red Dead Redemption
Forza 4
Mass Effect 1-2-3
Assassins Creed Series
Fallout 3-NV
God of War III
Halo ODST/ 3
MGS4
Batman AC
Far Cry 2
Just Cause 2
Left 4 Dead 2
Borderlands
Portal 1-2
Halo CEA
etc etc etc.
These are all games that would not be possible in current form on previous generations, whether it be due to scale, number of NPC's, AI, Physics, Number of Players, XBL/PSN integration, or other reasons.
Sure you could argue a game like Modern Warfare or Bioshock could have been done on previous consoles with severely hampered graphics. (See Wii version of MW3) and at that point, the experience is pretty severely effected as far as immersion. Which is a huge part of what makes those kinds of games good in the first place.
Next gen will bring about possibilities we have not thought of yet, as it does every time.
It will also bring about graphics that will make us wonder how we ever tolerated this gens graphics.
Sure games like Uncharted 3, Gears 3, Forza 4, Crysis etc impress. But look closely at anything in the game world and it shows that we just accept the graphics because it is a game and we are used to it, however much of the most impressive games this gen still look like absolute horse shit when not viewed a certain way. Graphics have a LONG way to go.
Next gen can't get here soon enough.
butter_stick
Banned
People said fucking GameCube graphics were good enough in 2006. Everytime this theme comes up people end up looking stupid in a few years.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah OP, your argument isn't really making sense.
Honestly, improved graphics and online infrastructures alone gets me excited for next gen.
Honestly, improved graphics and online infrastructures alone gets me excited for next gen.
nincompoop
Banned
The fact that you listed Portal 1, which runs well on hardware equivalent to the original Xbox, makes it clear that you don't know what you're talking about. (Oblivion also runs quite well on last gen PC hardware.) Most of those games aren't really doing anything that couldn't be done on last gen hardware with lesser visual fidelity.
perfectnight
Banned
Hey OP, Minecraft is not original.
No, that was last gen.
I don't know why I laughed...
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
So because you can argue one or two of the games on an enormous list of games that means I dont know what I'm talking about? Lets take it down a notch buddy.
Oblivion would not run on an Xbox. Hell Morrowind barely ran on the xbox. And Oblivion was a near launch title. If you think Skyrim could would be possible on the PS2 or Xbox then you have no clue what you are talking about.
Next gen will bring about games that are not possible now. If you think otherwise you are either ignorant or in denial.
That is an incredibly weak argument. I seriously doubt something like Arkham City would be as enjoyable looking like a previous-gen game, as its incredibly high quality visual presentation is one of the game's most enjoyable aspects.
People said very similar things about this gen before it started, and certainly we did see plenty of last-gen style games with a facelift. But we've also seen plenty of expansive, Internet-connected games that couldn't have been executed on last gen's hardware.
I expect the next to be the same.
I expect the next to be the same.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
They were good enough.
CamHostage
Member
DidntKnowJack
Member
I think the OP is basing his feelings on current trends, without having any idea what the next gen systems are going to be capable of. Hell, we still don't really know how powerful the Wii U is going to be. And I don't believe we've come close to the point of diminishing returns.
Trust me. There will be things happening next generation that are going to blow people away. And some of those things developers aren't even clued into yet. Whether that will involve shiny new visuals, AI routines, or something else, I can't say because I don't know more than anyone else. But I can only go by historical evidence that points to the fact that every generation something is introduced that couldn't have possibly have been accomplished in the years prior. To think next gen is going to be any different in this regard is just being pessimistic.
Trust me. There will be things happening next generation that are going to blow people away. And some of those things developers aren't even clued into yet. Whether that will involve shiny new visuals, AI routines, or something else, I can't say because I don't know more than anyone else. But I can only go by historical evidence that points to the fact that every generation something is introduced that couldn't have possibly have been accomplished in the years prior. To think next gen is going to be any different in this regard is just being pessimistic.
nincompoop
Banned
The entire point of this discussion is to talk about what technology can bring to the table beyond graphical quality. Nobody is saying that those games wouldn't be less enjoyable if they looked like PS2 games.
I could keep playing this gens console games for a few years, if only the 360 had pointer controls, i can't go back to the inferior dual analog after trying ponter controls.
And i dont even know what this thread is about anymore, of course next gen consoles will bring new features that will allow the good developers to give great experiences, that is a given.
And i dont even know what this thread is about anymore, of course next gen consoles will bring new features that will allow the good developers to give great experiences, that is a given.
Dark Octave
Banned
The_Endgamer
Member
Tube TV sets? Derrrrrrrr.
RyanReedyMusic
Banned
Lets just stay on one generation forever. No need to move on if this is the case. \=/ SARCASM
Put enough memory in the thing and it would give developers more freedom to do what they want, even outside of the obvious uses in graphics.
Persistent worlds are something we can only dream with current consoles and only couple of games try it on PC.
It would also need decent CPU to calculate the interaction of all units in the world at the same time.
Persistent worlds are something we can only dream with current consoles and only couple of games try it on PC.
It would also need decent CPU to calculate the interaction of all units in the world at the same time.
mysticwhip
Banned
MATHAFUCKING TECH DEMOS AIN"T GONNA FOOL MY ASS.
*BROFIST*
You seem not to read OP. I said that this gen brought serious advancements in graphics department which affected perception of games for some people and it was revolutionary enough. Next gen won't have this.
Also I'm coming from PC background and pretty much all these games you listed were possible on PC in 2004 if we talk about gameplay. Morrowind was released on xbox and it had this big world with hundreds npcs and all this stuff.
RockmanWhore
Member
What really needs to be improved next gen isn't the tech, but the ease of developping games. Making 3D games needs to be cheaper, or else we'll be stuck forever with only big teams being games to produce decent games, and seeing sequels again and again because it's too risky to make original games.
Anyway, devs keep sacrificing the IQ to put more effects in their games, if anything it shows that they need more power to do their job properly. There's too many games with shitty framerate, bad AA, screen tearing, etc...
Anyway, devs keep sacrificing the IQ to put more effects in their games, if anything it shows that they need more power to do their job properly. There's too many games with shitty framerate, bad AA, screen tearing, etc...
unrenowned
Member
Next gen will always just be marketing speak, it has nothing to do with gameplay, AI, or whatever. Middleware/engines are becoming better and easier to use, so we will always get better games as long as people dare try out new interesting ideas.
The success of indie releases in the last few years have convinced me that there's still interesting concepts to explore.
The success of indie releases in the last few years have convinced me that there's still interesting concepts to explore.
Motion controllers. Your body as a controller. Deep online integration. 3D. Digital Distribution. Indie games.
A lot more than just graphics and physics.
The viability of these new advances took last gen ideas so much farther than we've ever seen.
But yes, the average AAA game will always be about graphics because most developers and publishers have no clue how to make games that go outside the norm to make something successful.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
This thread is silly.
Motion controllers. Your body as a controller. Deep online integration. 3D. Digital Distribution. Indie games.
A lot more than just graphics and physics.
The viability of these new advances took last gen ideas so much farther than we've ever seen.
But yes, the average AAA game will always be about graphics because most developers and publishers have no clue how to make games that go outside the norm to make something successful.
Well, you don't need consoles to advance then. I'm looking forward to Kinect 2.0 though, I hope we'll see some good adventure games with this.
Fess
Member
OP, I totally agree with what you're saying.
There is a big problem with your argument though. We don't have a clue what MS and Sony are going to show us.
Think about what we got this gen. Motion controls, body-tracking for example. And think about what Nintendo has shown so far with Wii U. Pen and touch controls, second screen.
Why wouldn't it be "next gen" if MS and Sony both come up with something new like that?
And personally I'd say that since they're both incredibly silent I'm pretty sure that what they'll eventually show us won't just be better graphics and physics. They're both up to something. Something very very cool. That's my guess at least.
There is a big problem with your argument though. We don't have a clue what MS and Sony are going to show us.
Think about what we got this gen. Motion controls, body-tracking for example. And think about what Nintendo has shown so far with Wii U. Pen and touch controls, second screen.
Why wouldn't it be "next gen" if MS and Sony both come up with something new like that?
And personally I'd say that since they're both incredibly silent I'm pretty sure that what they'll eventually show us won't just be better graphics and physics. They're both up to something. Something very very cool. That's my guess at least.
I don't necessarily want better looking games. I want smarter games, and I don't mean in the turn based money simulator type sense.
I want civilians being more unique. That's one thing I really dug about GTA 4, it felt like a living world. Better than any other game I've played(Witcher 2's was good as well, but I'd deduct some points since it's not a huge open city)
I want fights that are far more fascinating. It's really disappointing that none of the hand to hand fights look anywhere close to something out of a modern action film.
I want civilians being more unique. That's one thing I really dug about GTA 4, it felt like a living world. Better than any other game I've played(Witcher 2's was good as well, but I'd deduct some points since it's not a huge open city)
I want fights that are far more fascinating. It's really disappointing that none of the hand to hand fights look anywhere close to something out of a modern action film.
Well, I certainly hope so. Kinect has a lot of potential, not for traditional genres though.
I cannot wait for these honestly!!
Fess
Member
Next-gen Kinect could have potential for traditional genres, we have no idea what it is, what it can do and if it'll be packed in. Plus, MS could've come up with something else too, a real game changer. We just don't know. The same goes for Sony. They've both been incredibly silent this time around. This gets me excited!
And if you think about it. How else are they going to impress us this time around if it weren't for something else than the usual CPU/GPU talk? PC masterrace has already won that battle imo. There is no way that consoles will be better powerwise than high end PC's this time around, not even at launch if I would guess. Unless they are going for 599 US Dollars, and beyond, which they won't.
BUT they'll be better at... well... something else. That, I'm sure of.
This won't happen
Fallout-NL
Member
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
Uh...that's happened since the beginning of computers. You can have a negative attitude about it like saying "Hardware limitations strangle most of the life out of the art" or you can think about it like hardware limitations makes people be more creative to find ways around the limitations and still get the results they desire.
Wouldn't you rather see developers spending their creativity on actual game experiences instead of circumventing hardware limitations and bottlenecks?
the fuck ?
how so ?
won't releasing this early mean that both next gen consoles are just Powerful PCs circa 2011?
FairXchange
Member
If developers have trouble achieving their vision for a game world on current gen hardware then I welcome the new round of consoles to help bring new possibilities to gaming.
And I don't see how AI couldn't be improved on new hardware, perhaps a more complex AI system is a resource hog and with newer hardware, this can be implemented without sacrificing other components of the game.
All in all, bring on the new round of consoles. If you can guarantee that graphics and physics are the known improvements, you should be thinking about what other possibilities developers will almost 100% take advantage of to create better and more immersion in games.
And I don't see how AI couldn't be improved on new hardware, perhaps a more complex AI system is a resource hog and with newer hardware, this can be implemented without sacrificing other components of the game.
All in all, bring on the new round of consoles. If you can guarantee that graphics and physics are the known improvements, you should be thinking about what other possibilities developers will almost 100% take advantage of to create better and more immersion in games.
FlyingTeacup
Member
looking at current trend,
i'd call it to be expensive and buggy gen.
i'd call it to be expensive and buggy gen.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Man oh man. So clueless.